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It is the peak of human arrogance...


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/agree

 

What moron thinks otherwise?

 

 

 

 

Anyone who resists with absolute certainty the probability of complex extraterrestrial life or the possibility (albeit slim) of intelligent design on a quantum level.

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Anyone who resists with absolute certainty the probability of complex extraterrestrial life or the possibility (albeit slim) of intelligent design on a quantum level.

 

 

Not believing in ID is arrogant? Really? Give me any evidence to back up that assertion.... no wait you said possibility, the flying spaghetti monster is possible, very slim, but i can't say it's impossible, not being able to say something is impossible doesn't make it anymore possible...

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Not believing in ID is arrogant? Really? Give me any evidence to back up that assertion.... no wait you said possibility, the flying spaghetti monster is possible, very slim, but i can't say it's impossible, not being able to say something is impossible doesn't make it anymore possible...

 

I never said NOT believing in ID is arrogant, I suggested that absolute assumption of anything is arrogant. While I firmly believe superstring theory will inevitably satisfy the known laws of quantum mechanics, I genuinely believe biological studies will inevitably suggest life comes from life. But then again, I acknowledge the possibility (though I believe slim) that RNA formed then subsequently replicated itself.

Edited by euouae
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I never said NOT believing in ID is arrogant, I suggested that absolute assumption of anything is arrogant. While I firmly believe superstring theory will inevitably satisfy the known laws of quantum mechanics, I genuinely believe biological studies will inevitably suggest life comes from life. But then again, I acknowledge the possibility (though I believe slim) that RNA formed then subsequently replicated itself.

 

 

So instead of waiting for the study of abiogenesis to go forward, it has some really good science behind it already, you are going to go with life comes from life comes from life comes from life and so on? The fact that that answers nothing isn't a problem with for you?

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So instead of waiting for the study of abiogenesis to go forward, it has some really good science behind it already, you are going to go with life comes from life comes from life comes from life and so on? The fact that that answers nothing isn't a problem with for you?

 

I literally acknowledged Abiogensis in the post you quoted of mine. Abiogenesis attempts to explain whether metabolism or replication came first. Opponents and proponents of theories will occur until the process is able to be reproduced artificially or, better yet, discovered in nature. Until then, theorizing that this process occurred spontaneously and theorizing that the process was initiated basically are similar assumptions.

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I literally acknowledged Abiogensis in the post you quoted of mine. Abiogenesis attempts to explain whether metabolism or replication came first. Opponents and proponents of theories will occur until the process is able to be reproduced artificially or, better yet, discovered in nature. Until then, theorizing that this process occurred spontaneously and theorizing that the process was initiated basically are similar assumptions.

 

 

No it's not, one is a naturalistic process the other is by definition supernatural... and no the process does not have to be repeated artificially to be confirmed....

Edited by Moontanman
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No it's not, one is a naturalistic process the other is by definition supernatural... and no the process does not have to be repeated artificially to be confirmed....

 

It is unreasonable to define one theoretical process as "naturalistic" and another theoretical process as "supernatural" especially when both possibilities are completely within the realm of conceivable physics.

 

I concede that not all theories will be "proven" through experimental results. However, until persuaded by evidence, I am inclined to consider "spontaneous" theories with the same skeptical reasoning as "assisted" theories.

 

Determining which theory is more/less impossible or which makes more/less assumptions at this point, is essentially at the discretion of one's intellect.

Edited by euouae
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It is unreasonable to define one theoretical process as "naturalistic" and another theoretical process as "supernatural" especially when both possibilities are completely within the realm of conceivable physics.

 

No, ID is not within the realms of conventional physics, if you disagree I would love to hear how it can be...

 

I concede that not all theories will be "proven" through experimental results. However, until persuaded by evidence, I am inclined to consider "spontaneous" theories with the same skeptical reasoning as "assisted" theories.

 

I can understand being skeptical but where does assistance come from if not the supernatural?

 

Determining which theory is more/less impossible or which makes more/less assumptions at this point, is essentially at the discretion of one's intellect.

 

Not at all, neither is impossible, one is naturalistic the other is supernatural, supernatural is not impossible it just has no basis in reality...

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No, ID is not within the realms of conventional physics, if you disagree I would love to hear how it can be...

 

 

 

I can understand being skeptical but where does assistance come from if not the supernatural?

 

 

 

Not at all, neither is impossible, one is naturalistic the other is supernatural, supernatural is not impossible it just has no basis in reality...

 

Panspermia.

 

The probability of one complex intelligent extraterrestrial organism that evolved under different conditions/laws of our observable 4-dimensional universe and either before or after the creation of it 14 billion years ago.

 

If all matter is essentially organized energy, is it possible that energy has neither a beginning nor an end? And that life exists in a cosmic intersection of energies/dimensions/membranes. I don't think that humans are the sole result of evolution, though I do believe that biology is.

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Panspermia.

 

Panspermia still implies a beginning, if it happened once near the beginning of the universe why does that have to be the only time?

 

 

The probability of one complex intelligent extraterrestrial organism that evolved under different conditions/laws of our observable 4-dimensional universe and either before or after the creation of it 14 billion years ago.

 

Again, if it happened once why not twice or billions of times?

 

If all matter is essentially organized energy, is it possible that energy has neither a beginning nor an end? And that life exists in a cosmic intersection of energies/dimensions/membranes.

 

This is just absolute speculation, no better than the spaghetti monster did it....

 

I don't think that humans are the sole result of evolution, though I do believe that biology is.

 

Who says humans are necessarily the sole result of evolution? I would be willing to assert that many intelligent life forms have arisen through the process of evolution...

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The problem with ID is it can be scientifically tested nor can anyone agree on how it should be defined outside of religion. Intelligence is another area that many have developed tests on what they interpret to be intelligence but again many can't agree on how it should be defined so these tests appear to be silly. What I define to possess intelligence is if you have the ability for memory which is critical since if you can't remember what you did a moment ago, you have nothing to build information, being capable of making a decision then being able to directly put it into action in a trial and error process. This definition applies to us and the entire food chain so yes intelligence is not a unique property limited to just humans.

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  • 4 weeks later...

The problem with ID is it can be scientifically tested nor can anyone agree on how it should be defined outside of religion. Intelligence is another area that many have developed tests on what they interpret to be intelligence but again many can't agree on how it should be defined so these tests appear to be silly. What I define to possess intelligence is if you have the ability for memory which is critical since if you can't remember what you did a moment ago, you have nothing to build information, being capable of making a decision then being able to directly put it into action in a trial and error process. This definition applies to us and the entire food chain so yes intelligence is not a unique property limited to just humans.

 

But surely, Intelligence is a property limited to humans. Non-human animals are stupid. You can see that's true, if you have a dog or cat as a pet.

 

They don't know what day of the week it is. Aren't they just bellies running around on four legs? We only only tolerate them, because we've bred them out of being aggressive. So they let us stroke them without biting us. And don't eat too much food.

 

Has anyone kept a pet dog, without feeling depressed at how fundamentally stupid the thing really is?

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But surely, Intelligence is a property limited to humans. Non-human animals are stupid. You can see that's true, if you have a dog or cat as a pet.

 

They don't know what day of the week it is. Aren't they just bellies running around on four legs? We only only tolerate them, because we've bred them out of being aggressive. So they let us stroke them without biting us. And don't eat too much food.

 

Has anyone kept a pet dog, without feeling depressed at how fundamentally stupid the thing really is?

 

 

Dekan, I truly hope you are just trolling, I've waited to respond to this due to the emotional response it invoked in me. I've had dogs most of my life and several cats as well. Several times I've seen dogs exhibit behavior that indicated a high degree of intelligence by doing things they had never been taught in situations that were completely new and by making the correct decision in that situation. One dog went to get help for me when as a kid I was caught in a sink hole. The little dog, who everyone thought was dumb as a stump, actually traveled a distance of a mile or so and actually herded a stranger to the place I was at so she could help me.

 

Now you can call that a belly with four legs if you want but I see it as actual intelligence. Another dog came and got me when the hot water heater had malfunctioned and was spewing natural gas and steam into the house. If he hadn't come and got me and literally dragged me to the problem the entire house might have exploded. This last dog was... a basset hound, the dogs most people think of as totally stupid. On top of coming and getting me he had to resist the urge to flee from a very loud and strange situation that even most humans would have simply run from, the hot water heater spewing steam and and natural gas must have been terrifying to him but he came and got me and did his best to drag me away from the danger. ( I know it sounds like an episode of Lassie ) Dogs, and cats as well, have tremendous amounts of real intelligence even when measured by our own prejudiced standards..... I still have the the dog who went against all his natural instincts to brave the noise, steam, and natural gas to come and get me, he is very smart, if a bit self centered in most things but he is not a belly on four legs.....

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgjyhKN_35g

Edited by Moontanman
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