JohnB Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 I don't think we should try to do anything for something that doesn't deserve it. You know, I bet someone said something very similar about wasting money and resources to send Lt. James Cook to the Southern Ocean to observe the transit of Venus. There was certainly no apparent benefit to most of the population from his voyage. I don't think it was a waste, do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorcerer Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 Its not like this hasn't been done before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ophiolite Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 Sorcerer, you suggest that Cook's visit to the Southern Ocean to view the transit of Venus was novel. Now, I'll grant you that observing the transit from there was novel. Journeying to the Southern Ocean was not, yet the investment was still made. For the reasons succinctly laid out by Sayonara, mankind needs to become a spacefaring species. (please note that 'needs to' is different from 'wants to' or 'has a right to') You are right to say that it will require a lot of resources to evolve the technology. Now, along comes a commercial organisation (who tend to be quite good at making effective use of resources in order to make a profit), and a bunch of rich people willing to pay for those resources. So all humanity benefits from some 'thrillseekers'. And to top it off, the 'commercial organisations' are in it as much because they believe passionately in space travel and will likely plow a lot of the profits, when they emerge, right back into development. I share some of your concerns. You say 'It's not what the wealthy are doing to me, it's what the wealthy are doing to the world'. I agree 100%. However you and I are wealthy. I know I am, and you have told us you are, for you own a bicycle. On a global scale owning a bicycle is wealth. (Why you probably even have two sets of clothes!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorcerer Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 I know Im wealthy, but then theres those people that are just ludicrously rich. You make the point travel to the southern ocean had been done before, but I think we are fairly confident that there is nothing novel to encounter in a suborbital flight, except maybe the first space tourism death. I think space travel for scientific goals is warranted, space tourism is ok, but in my opinion a total waste of time and resources. I just want to put it like this one more time; who would want to go on holiday trapped inside a box flying through a vaccum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 Me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorcerer Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 You mustn't be claustiphobic then....... actually I can think of one good use for this technology, if they could develop it into more feul efficient/faster aircraft, they could fly up to heights where the air is thinnner and thus fiction is reduced and reduce feul consumption for long international flights..... this way you would actually be going somewhere so you could holiday there, not just up in a box and down in a box..... Mind you this is a long way off, considering at the moment its just a 3(?) man craft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ophiolite Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 I just want to put it like this one more time; who would want to go on holiday trapped inside a box flying through a vaccum. I apologise for us not having answered clearly enough earlier. Many people. Not in percentage terms perhaps, but in absolute terms, very many. Most of them are not the rich, who will be able to afford the early flights, but 'ordinary' people. I have absolutely no problem accepting that you find the prospect mind numbingly pointless. Lots of people will feel the same way. I am puzzled by your apparent unwillingness to accept that others may have a different perspective. Neither are right or wrong, merely different. "A1985 opinion poll carried out for the American Express company in the U.K. showed that more than 50% of those under 45, and 65% of those under 25, would like a holiday in space" That's from here - http://www.spacefuture.com/archive/potential_economic_implications_of_the_development_of_space_tourism.shtml And I acknowledge that a large majority of those people wouldn't want the twenty five minutes locked in a box option - but some would. You can logically object to it on the grounds that it is a waste of resources, as you have done. I don't agree, but it is a debatable point. I do not see how you can logically object to it on the grounds that you wouldn't like it. Heh, if you are right nobody will front up to buy a ticket anyway...........Apart from me and Sayonara. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakuzi Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 I would love to go in space, even if it were only for 4 minutes! Sure it's expensive and also a bit wastefull, but if the people providing this technology could use the money from space tourism to research safer, more efficient craft isn't that a plus then? And when they get to the moon we would have an abundant fuel source of helium-3 too, which will prolly fuel future spacecraft as well as the global economy. And just imagine walking on the moon... @ Sorcerer I'm visiting your country atm and I can fully understand why you don't want to leave this beautifull place Mind you though, the plastic bag comsumption in the supermarkets is off the scale, pretty wastefull imo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorcerer Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 I just want to remind you that the poll question asks for your subjective opinion: "Should there be a privately owned operation to send the public to vacation in space?" So why is it so bad if I want to justify my answer....... also the question and the poll are badly tied together, meaning its actually a yes no question, not good idea/bad idea. @ Yakuzi: we have public recycling, we use the plastic bags as rubbish bin liners, also use them to bundle our newspapers in for recycling....... hey a plastic bag on a string makes a great kite too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Heh, if you are right nobody will front up to buy a ticket anyway...........Apart from me and Sayonara. I have been on the Virgin Galactic mailing list for 6 days no and they have sent me nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sepultallica Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Well, you get to pilot a space ship. That a bit more than a wide screen TV can provide, thrill wise. well, what size screen we talkin bout cuz i dont know. my plasma screen is going to bring me enjoyment well past the vacation. besides, i could watch myself on the tv as im in space on vacation. wait, that doesnt help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 When I see Egypt on tv it really doesn't make me feel like I have experienced the Valley of the Kings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ophiolite Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 When I see Egypt on tv it really doesn't make me feel like I have experienced the Valley of the Kings.True, but it has to be said that the commentary on the TV is much better than the real thing, and nobody ever tried to sell me a mummy's hand in my own living room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mardigan Posted October 13, 2004 Author Share Posted October 13, 2004 This is how I look at it, you can experience it in a book, in a movie, in a virtual world, or you can do it. I believe that the x prize will help out more then we can see now. What all have we gained from NASA, what inventions have be made for everyday use? I would like to one day go to a space station and spend a week in the marvel of it all. Just think, I almost forgot I started this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorcerer Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Like what have we gained from NASA, what inventions for everyday use? All I can think of is GPS, communication sattelites and sattelite TV, what else? Since this is most comparable to the space shuttle, eg it is a reusable form of space transport, what things do you think we have gained for every day use from the space shuttle? And would you care to speculate of what things we will get for everyday use from this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakuzi Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Dont forget the microwave and the instant meals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atinymonkey Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 well, what size screen we talkin bout cuz i dont know. my plasma screen is going to bring me enjoyment well past the vacation. besides, i could watch myself on the tv as im in space on vacation. wait, that doesnt help. lol, I send you a tape of me having fun on my spacetrip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J'Dona Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Here's a link posted by coquina in another thread, Sorcerer, that provides a few more examples: http://www.thespaceplace.com/nasa/spinoffs.html If I may say so, GPS, communication satellites, and satellite TV are rather significant advances even on their own. The shuttles have spent most of their time ferrying astronauts around in space and launching satellites, both of which directly affect scientific progress. The shuttles themselves just don't do much direct research, and the last pure research mission took place on Challenger... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorcerer Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Dont forget the microwave and the instant meals I wish I could though. Edit: The microwave is atleast good for reheating food.... cooking it ....... naaaaaa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mardigan Posted October 14, 2004 Author Share Posted October 14, 2004 That is what I am saying, space travel has brought a few inventions. Space travel is not a waste of resources and money, except when you send a telescope to space with out a lens, or do calculations in feet and program in meters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorcerer Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Hmmm space travel is quite a broad feild though, I'm not saying all space travel is a waste, just space tourism, very little will be gained IMO...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primarygun Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 i think race to space wastes a lot of natural resources. I vote the bad one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ophiolite Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 i think race to space wastes a lot of natural resources.I vote the bad one Out of curiosity, how would you have voted if the poll had asked, The future of humankind is in space: Yes No Don't know I suspect most people who have voted yes to the 'race to space', would also vote 'yes' to this hypothetical poll. But are those voting 'no' to the 'race to space' doing so because they do not it believe it will contribute to our move to space, or because they don't think our future is out there, or some other reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorcerer Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 We must secure our future here on Earth before we consider a future in the stars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osram Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 We must secure our future here on Earth before we consider a future in the stars. We have no future on earth. And if we have, we create it from space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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