How does energy become electricity in electromagnetic induction?

[cameron marical]

This I just bugging me. I dont see how anything, photons, kinetic energy, whatever, can go about In getting concentrated amounts of electrons In a wire while not simultaneously making the inductor and/or the magnet an ion.

 

Can anyone help?

 

Thanks.

[UC]

Because current flow has nothing to do with more electrons, just the motion of the ones that are already there.

[cameron marical]

Then It would make the copper or magnets ions?

 

Say that I have a generator, I turn the little crank for It and then with the electricity I just generated, I power a light bulb. The electrons where then taken from the copper/magnet{what one?} and then put into that light bulb, then there Is an electron definciancy In the generator? Yet generators last quite a while, right? and they dont just run out once their electrons run out, so that proposition of induction is impossible right? Wouldnt that electrons have to be generated from another source then{kinetic energy for generators} to make up for the electron loss?

 

Wheres my flaw?

 

Thanks for the reply.

[UC]

You misunderstand what electricity is fundamentally and how changing magnetic fields induce a current in wires (how a generator works). No electrons ever leave anything. Current flow is just electrons moving around in a definite direction in a loop of wire (okay, so it doesnt have to be in wire, but lets leave that out of the picture for now). These electrons are already there, but don't move in a definite direction in any old piece of metal. When pushed in one direction, they dissipate potential energy (voltage) across a load (something with a resistance; a lightbulb in this case) and it emerges as photons of heat and light. The net effect is that the energy you expend turning the crank gets turned inefficiently into light.

Edited May 17, 2009 by UC

[GutZ]

I think what he is trying to get at is where the electron come from. Don't quote me but I think beccause metals such as copper have alot of free electrons, that why they are good for conducting electricity.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_current#Metals

 

"A solid conductive metal contains a large population of mobile, or free, electrons. These electrons are bound to the metal lattice but not to any individual atom. Even with no external electric field applied, these electrons move about randomly due to thermal energy but, on average, there is zero net current within the metal. "

[cameron marical]

So the copper {or silver, or whatever your using to induce the current} would eventually become ions?

[SH3RL0CK]

So the copper {or silver, or whatever your using to induce the current} would eventually become ions?

 

Nope. The number of electrons present remains the same. The distinction is that the electrons are moving when the current is induced (you might try to google Kirchoffs Current Law which states that the total current flow to and from a node is zero).

 

For an atom to become an ion, it needs to not have an electron. While the induction causes an electron to leave the atom, this electron is immediately replaced by an electron from the next atom. The electron from the next atom is replaced by the electron from the atom next to it...and so forth until we get back to the original electron. Thus atoms do not become ions simply because of an induced current flow.

[cameron marical]

For an atom to become an ion, it needs to not have an electron. While the induction causes an electron to leave the atom, this electron is immediately replaced by an electron from the next atom. The electron from the next atom is replaced by the electron from the atom next to it...and so forth until we get back to the original electron. Thus atoms do not become ions simply because of an induced current flow.

 

But what about In the front where the first electron left and there was nothing In front of It to pass an electron on?

 

Also, when you take those electrons elsewhere{generator connected to a batterie, then the batterie Is charged, disconnected, and taken elsewhere}, then the copper gets a lesser net number of electrons than when It started with, am I right?

 

If so:

 

Then how can electricity be continued to be generated using the same materials for an extended amount of time? Electrons surely do not just "pop up" from the energy.

{please ignore positron and electron generation from lasers and gold, those do not count, as that they would cancel each other out and become energy again and I am not talking about lasers, I am talking about simpler electricity means than that.}

Edited June 2, 2009 by cameron marical

[SH3RL0CK]

But what about In the front where the first electron left and there was nothing In front of It to pass an electron on?

but the electron does pass on...if it does not you have no current flow and the electron does not leave the atom...therefore no ion either way.

Also, when you take those electrons elsewhere{generator connected to a batterie, then the batterie Is charged, disconnected, and taken elsewhere}, then the copper gets a lesser net number of electrons than when It started with, am I right?

no, that is not right. If the battery contained an excess of electrons you could simply connect only the positive terminal to get current flow. But since you have to connect both the positive and negative terminals, it is clear the battery does not contain an excess of electrons.

 

The chemical reaction in the battery tries to move electrons from one terminal to another within the battery. This movement does not happen until the electrical circuit is completed, at which time the electrons can move from one terminal to the other because the electrons get replenished at the negative terminal.

[cameron marical]

but the electron does pass on...if it does not you have no current flow and the electron does not leave the atom...therefore no ion either way.

 

Yes, It passes on, but what replaces It? The Electromagnetic induction pushes those already existing in the conductor being used, but that means that It would have to supply electrons to keep the flow going doesnt it? Where do these electrons come from?

 

Im sorry If I am just asking the same question over again.

 

no, that is not right. If the battery contained an excess of electrons you could simply connect only the positive terminal to get current flow. But since you have to connect both the positive and negative terminals, it is clear the battery does not contain an excess of electrons.

 

Im sorry, I am kind of new to electronics, What is the difference between the positive side and the negative side of batteries? I thought electrons were just electrons, and they just have the usual negative charge.

 

Thanks for the help guys.

[UC]

Metal behaves like a "sea of electrons" some of the valence electrons on every atom in a piece of metal are more or less free to move about the stationary ions, which are positive charges. The net effect of this without external stimulus is that the electrons don't go anywhere. When you have a closed loop of conductor and you induce a current, you push the electrons in a definite direction. This is sort of like making water swirl around in a loop. As electrons drift one direction, those next to them drift into their original spot. It's all simultaneous.

 

The positive and negative ends of batteries refer to which direction the electrons move relative to it, either in or out. With the crude analogy above, a battery is sort of like a pump. It can move the water around the loop in one direction. The fountain pump I use to chill my condenser, for example, has a listing of capabilities on it. The pumping rate gets lower the higher up the destination is from where the bottom of the pump sits. The same is true with voltage difference and current from a battery. Adding resistances in a circuit is like making the pump work uphill. It has a lowered rate of pumping (current).

[swansont]

Yes, It passes on, but what replaces It? The Electromagnetic induction pushes those already existing in the conductor being used, but that means that It would have to supply electrons to keep the flow going doesnt it? Where do these electrons come from?

 

Im sorry If I am just asking the same question over again.

 

It's a closed loop.

[cameron marical]

I think I understand.

 

Though, that pops up another question, how do recharable batteries work then?

[SH3RL0CK]

I think I understand.

 

Though, that pops up another question, how do recharable batteries work then?

 

Inside a battery there is a chemical reaction which causes an electomotive force http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromotive_force . This electromotive force is why a battery can deliver current to an electrical circuit. This will continue until the chemical reaction is completed at which point there is no more emf.

 

For some chemical reactions used in batteries (specifically the rechargable batteries), when you force current to flow opposite the normal electromotive force of a battery, the chemical reaction reverses. Thus the battery has more energy available than previously.

 

You should look at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_(electricity) and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recharging_batteries for a basic overview of batteries.

[cameron marical]

Wow. ha. holly kundalani. I get it.

 

thanks guys!

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Merged post follows:

Consecutive posts merged

Why Is It that when you put two wires touching the negative and the positives of a battery It produces heat then? Why does It not just go back into the battery?

Edited June 4, 2009 by cameron marical
Consecutive posts merged.

[swansont]

Why Is It that when you put two wires touching the negative and the positives of a battery It produces heat then? Why does It not just go back into the battery?

 

The current is not free to flow unimpeded. The electrons are bumping around inside the circuit (the wire, in this case) and the electrical energy is converted to thermal energy.

[morp]

This I just bugging me. I dont see how anything, photons, kinetic energy, whatever, can go about In getting concentrated amounts of electrons In a wire while not simultaneously making the inductor and/or the magnet an ion.

 

Can anyone help?

 

Thanks.

 

We do not understand your problem. What do you mean by energy and by electricity?

On a bicycle energy comes from the legs and electricity goes to the lamp.There are nowhere concentrated amounts of electrons, electrons are just flowing.

[proton]

The questions posed above are best answered utilizing the charge/water analogy. Picture a garden hose whose ends are joined so as to make a closed loop. The water represent charge. Let the hose be completely filled with water. Current is then analogous to the water moving through the hose. When the water begins to flow there is no gap in the hose due to a lack of water. When water leaves one point it only does so when water from a previous section occupies the space being vacated by the water leaving it.

[Luky]

Sorry! For not reading all the posts but I have my own ideas.

For that the electrons exist, they can only get excited by the electromagnetically induced charges of the other electrons in acceleration. This leads the free electrons to get moved in the direction of the electromagnetic force.

 

 

There is always a chance of correction if I am on a mistake.

Edited June 28, 2009 by Luky