New Middle Eastern War

[Pangloss]

You only get bashed by your own people though. Most of the world wants you to leave it alone.

 

That would certainly be the case when it comes to the North Korea situation, yeah. The Dems are pounding the administration right now for its policy of not negotiating with North Korea, but the rest of the world seems to be on the same page with the administration, favoring the joint international approach. That might not be so true about other situations (Darfor comes to mind), but I do think you have an interesting point there. I've often said Americans should pay more attention to world opinion, and this would seem to be another example.

 

 

Incidentally (returning to the subject at hand), Iran released a statement today supporting a cease-fire. It cannot be a coincidence that this follows the joint statement supporting Israel from the G8, and another joint statement about Iran's nuclear efforts, indicating that the G8 has managed to return to the business that it was supposed to be doing. Iran took its best shot, and it failed.

 

Interesting blog post in Die Welt along these lines:

http://www.welt.de/z/plog/blog.php/the_free_west/the_free_wests_weblog/2006/07/17/is_iran_losing_touch

[ecoli]

You only get bashed by your own people though. Most of the world wants you to leave it alone.

 

They say they want us to leave it alone. But, they cry out for us to take action when we do. It's a lose-lose situation.

 

Don't forget Severian, the Islamic extremists would kill you simply for being an infidel and a part of Western culture. They are taught to hate.

 

Incidentally (returning to the subject at hand)' date=' Iran released a statement today supporting a cease-fire. It cannot be a coincidence that this follows the joint statement supporting Israel from the G8, and another joint statement about Iran's nuclear efforts, indicating that the G8 has managed to return to the business that it was supposed to be doing. Iran took its best shot, and it failed.

[/quote']

 

I don't believe a cease fire favors Israel right now, see my past posts. This thing must be finished, or they will have achieved nothing.

[Severian]

They say they want us to leave it alone. But, they cry out for us to take action when we do. It's a lose-lose situation.

 

Who cries out? The international community don't.

 

Don't forget Severian, the Islamic extremists would kill you simply for being an infidel and a part of Western culture. They are taught to hate.

 

I don't think that is true. That is your propoganda talking. They want death to the people who oppress them and insult their religion. They may try and kill me, but only because I represent these things in their mind, or if I am in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

I suspect I have a larger chance of being killed by the IDF than Hezbollah.

[ecoli]

I don't think that is true. That is your propoganda talking.

 

Oh really? http://www.aish.com/jewishissues/middleeast/Our_Culture_of_Hate.asp

 

^ This article was written by a Palestinian woman.

 

They want death to the people who oppress them and insult their religion. They may try and kill me, but only because I represent these things in their mind, or if I am in the wrong place at the wrong time.

So that would make your death ok? Your the type of person I'm afraid of Severian in the coming conflict. Israel and those who fight terrorism can not do what they need to do because they face too much opposition to those who would hand a knife to a terrorist and allow him to slit your throat.

 

I suspect I have a larger chance of being killed by the IDF than Hezbollah.

Depending how much you are supporting Hezbollah, I have no doubt that that's true.

[Bettina]

The biggest question to me is why should I care what happens in the Middle East anymore? Both sides have shown that they are not willing to compromise - they both seem to want to fight to the death. Maybe it is time we let them?

 

 

 

If it is your perception that they are a problem then it is you and your country who has to do something about it. I do not perceive them as a problem' date=' so why should I get involved?

 

I would much prefer my government spend my money sorting out Africa than the Middle East.

 

Tell me, is Afghanistan less of a problem for the west or more of a problem than it was 10 years ago? How about Iraq?[/quote']

 

Your way of thinking was expected so I'm not stunned by your attitude. Sit back and let some other country fight evil for you. Get uninvolved. Build a brick house. Raise the Iranian flag over it and change it to whoever is a threat at the moment.

 

This is not a personal attack. Your in a very large group of people who turn a blind eye to the evil that faces civilization.

 

Bettina

[GutZ]

Your way of thinking was expected so I'm not stunned by your attitude. Sit back and let some other country fight evil for you. Get uninvolved. Build a brick house. Raise the Iranian flag over it and change it to whoever is a threat at the moment.

 

This is not a personal attack. Your in a very large group of people who turn a blind eye to the evil that faces civilization.

 

Bettina

 

There is a point where you realise too though that you can not change someone or a situation for the better. The sad thing is that there are alot of people that want nothing to do with it, and they get killed.

 

It's just a rediculous situation.

 

Whether we help or not, it's still going to be a mess.

 

Terrorism is sadistically effective.

[ecoli]

Your way of thinking was expected so I'm not stunned by your attitude. Sit back and let some other country fight evil for you. Get uninvolved. Build a brick house. Raise the Iranian flag over it and change it to whoever is a threat at the moment.

 

This is not a personal attack. Your in a very large group of people who turn a blind eye to the evil that faces civilization.

 

I'll be the first to admit' date=' the West has, in the past, really screwed up in the middle east. However, there has to be a point where we blame the actions of the extremists in the middle east on those extremists and not on ourselves.

 

If you abuse a dog, and it turns ferral, you still have to kill that dog if it attacks your children. should the children allow themselves to be killed by the dog, because their father has abused it?

 

Man is unlike dog because we have a choice. If we are abused, we can choose to overcome our hardships in nonviolent ways, or we can turn to violence, and become no better then those who would abuse us.

 

The former way is noble and ultimately attracts the well-being from the world. The latter is despicable, and only winds up hurting people sympathetic to your cause.

 

These 'libaration' groups are shooting themselves in the foot, though they are too blind to see it. They avoid responsibility, instead blaming their problems on other people, and allow themselves and their children get caught in a web of scapegoating and lies.

 

There is a point where you realise too though that you can not change someone or a situation for the better. The sad thing is that there are alot of people that want nothing to do with it, and they get killed.

 

It's just a rediculous situation.

 

Whether we help or not, it's still going to be a mess.

 

Terrorism is sadistically effective.

 

you can always try, though. It's going to be a mess anyway, so you might as well not lay down arms and crawl into a hole, allowing yourself to die.

[Severian]

Oh really? http://www.aish.com/jewishissues/middleeast/Our_Culture_of_Hate.asp

 

^ This article was written by a Palestinian woman.

 

Your argument is grim if you are resorting to the Daily Telegraph. Do you understand the reputation of that newspaper?

 

And even if there is a general hatred of the west in Palestine' date=' should we not be asking why and try and to change their feelings? Do you intend to kill all of them, women and children too?

 

So that would make your death ok?

 

I don't want to die, but if I die in a car crash I am just as dead as I am from a terrorist bomb. You have to weigh up risk with cost. I would be much better off (and have a much longer life expectancy) if my government had spent the money it used to invade Iraq on the UK healthcare system.

 

Your the type of person I'm afraid of Severian in the coming conflict. Israel and those who fight terrorism can not do what they need to do because they face too much opposition to those who would hand a knife to a terrorist and allow him to slit your throat.

 

Depending how much you are supporting Hezbollah, I have no doubt that that's true.

 

Given your sympathies and your ties with Israel I could read that as a death threat. Are you sure it will be the terrorist knife at my throat and not yours?

 

Bettina is not worth replying to in her biggotry, but I expect more from you. You know very well that I don't support Hezbollah.

[Severian]

If you abuse a dog' date=' and it turns ferral, you still have to kill that dog if it attacks your children. should the children allow themselves to be killed by the dog, because their father has abused it?

[/quote']

 

That analogy presents a rather shocking perspective on your viewpoint I think. The mistreated dog is put down because it is deemed of lesser value than the children. An abused child which attacked another child would not be put down (I hope not even in Israel). You want to kill the palestinians because you deem them as beneath you - westerners are intrinsically worth more, so it doesn't really matter if the palestinians are killed - they are just dogs.

 

Is this you view, or do you want to abbandon that analogy?

[ecoli]

Your argument is grim if you are resorting to the Daily Telegraph. Do you understand the reputation of that newspaper?

 

I know that article was a first hand account from a Palestinians woman. that's all that matters.

 

And even if there is a general hatred of the west in Palestine, should we not be asking why and try and to change their feelings? Do you intend to kill all of them, women and children too?

absolutely, we should. But that doesn't include allowing ourselves to get killed in the process.

 

I don't want to die, but if I die in a car crash I am just as dead as I am from a terrorist bomb. You have to weigh up risk with cost. I would be much better off (and have a much longer life expectancy) if my government had spent the money it used to invade Iraq on the UK healthcare system.

If you die in a car crash, you are dead. If you allow Iraq to mass murder it's own people, millions are dead. I'm sorry innocent lives mean so little to you, just because they seem far away.

 

Given your sympathies and your ties with Israel I could read that as a death threat. Are you sure it will be the terrorist knife at my throat and not yours?

 

My days of taking you seriously have come to end. What a shame.

 

Bettina is not worth replying to in her biggotry, but I expect more from you. You know very well that I don't support Hezbollah.

But you are supporting Hezbollah. By denying responsibility to remove them as a regional and world threat, you are supporting them through your inaction.

[ecoli]

That analogy presents a rather shocking perspective on your viewpoint I think. The mistreated dog is put down because it is deemed of lesser value than the children. An abused child which attacked another child would not be put down (I hope not even in Israel). You want to kill the palestinians because you deem them as beneath you - westerners are intrinsically worth more' date=' so it doesn't really matter if the palestinians are killed - they are just dogs.

 

Is this you view, or do you want to abbandon that analogy?[/quote']

 

you misintepreted my analogy. The dog is property on the owner, just as the west saw the middle east during and immediately after WWII. Europe mistreated the area (ignoring cultural ties when drawing up countries and supporting ruthless governments to perserve oil rights) and things like that.

 

I meant to refer to the area as the dog, not the people.

 

And I do not think of dogs as inferior to men, just so you know. That was your comment. not mine. (nice strawman)

[Severian]

If you die in a car crash' date=' you are dead. If you allow Iraq to mass murder it's own people, millions are dead. I'm sorry innocent lives mean so little to you, just because they seem far away.

[/quote']

 

Let's be honest - it has nothing to do with 'innocent lives' lost. If it had we would be doing something about the genocides in Africa, but we do nothing.

 

But you are supporting Hezbollah. By denying responsibility to remove them as a regional and world threat, you are supporting them through your inaction.

 

So are you supporting the Sudanese Government's genocide in Darfur? Since you are doing nothing about I presume you must be (by your own argument).

[Jim]

Tell me' date=' is Afghanistan less of a problem for the west or more of a problem than it was 10 years ago? How about Iraq?[/quote']

 

The relevant but extremely difficult question is whether Afghanistan and Iraq are less of a problem for the west than they would have been without US action.

[ecoli]

Let's be honest - it has nothing to do with 'innocent lives' lost. If it had we would be doing something about the genocides in Africa, but we do nothing.

For clarification, when you say 'we,' whom do you refer to? ME and you? or the western nations in general?

 

So are you supporting the Sudanese Government's genocide in Darfur? Since you are doing nothing about I presume you must be (by your own argument).

 

Don't make presumtions about me. You don't even know me.

 

The relevant but extremely difficult question is whether Afghanistan and Iraq are less of a problem for the west than they would have been without US action.

 

I would like to think so, but what ifs are just conjecture.

 

 

This thread is getting slightly off track. I request we bring it back, please?

[Bettina]

Bettina is not worth replying to in her biggotry, but I expect more from you. You know very well that I don't support Hezbollah.

 

Biggotry agains Terroists? Again, that was the response I expected from you. But don't worry, when those who fight terrorism in order to make the world a better place, you and those that think like you, will get it free.

 

I am proud of what our soldiers are doing and proud of Israel too. Again, hide and keep safe.

 

Bettina

[Pangloss]

Actually that's not biggotry, it's closed-mindedness. I had the same gut-reaction to Severian's post, but I stopped and took some time to think about it, and dug past my surface response into a deeper meaning, where I found some truth.

 

That's what we're about here, you know. Dismissiveness is easy. Exchanging ideas with open minds is hard. And one of the things that I think is MOST hard for all of us Americans to do right now is to listen. To anybody.

[5614]

Severian, you have a way with debates like this, just to make everyone hate you! (no offence)

 

You've done it with me before, whatever anyone is saying you just argue against! And to be fair you are quite good at it.

 

I suspect I have a larger chance of being killed by the IDF than Hezbollah.

Er, unless you are currently living in the Middle East I belive that you are more likely to be killed by an Islamic extremist than the IDF. Whilst Hezbollah does not represent all Islamic extremists I still totally disagree with this quote, unless of course you are living in Lebanon, or sending nuclear technology to Iran or some such.

 

The biggest question to me is why should I care what happens in the Middle East anymore?

And fair enough if you don't care now about what happens in the Middle East. Maybe you will care when no one stops Iran and they have nuclear technology and start threatening the whole "Western" way of life. But then if you did only care when you yourself are threatend, doesn't that make you a selfish person?

 

Maybe you will care when the death toll reaches many hundreds and thousands? But surely you care somewhat about human lives?

 

Severian, I'm asking you two direct questions here:

1) Would you care if Israel nuked Syria?

2) Would you care if Iran nuked Israel?

(Straight yes/no answer. You can expand, but give a y/n)

 

You know very well that I don't support Hezbollah.

OK. Another direct question(s)

1) Do you support Israel? (y/n)

2) [If no to above] how would you describe your feelings towards the two sides? Do you think they're both in the wrong? Do you have a preference of who comes out "on top", whatever that may mean, from these current circumstances?

[ecoli]

Actually that's not biggotry' date=' it's closed-mindedness. I had the same gut-reaction to Severian's post, but I stopped and took some time to think about it, and dug past my surface response into a deeper meaning, where I found some truth.

 

That's what we're about here, you know. Dismissiveness is easy. Exchanging ideas with open minds is hard. And one of the things that I think is MOST hard for all of us Americans to do right now is to listen. To [i']anybody[/i].

 

And let's face it, this is a hard topic to debate. For one reason espeically. People like to label you. If you support Israel, you are immediately labelled as 'anti-Palestinian.' And from the other side, if you are Palestinian, you are obviously a terrorist.

 

Severian's strawman was a case-in-point. When I made the analogy to the dog, he automatically assumed that I saw Palestinians as less than human. When, in actuality, I said nothing of the sort.

 

But, perhaps it's not Severian's fault. The media wants us to choose sides, because conflict never fails to sell papers. Perhaps biased media is to blame.

 

You can certainly fault feelings of hate of both sides due to the lack of education of the other.

 

I have no doubt that if you lead an Israeli through the Gaza strip, or introduce a Palestinian woman to an Israeli mother of a terrorist victim, that one would be able to empathize with the other.

 

After all, both sides want the same thing. I see no real reason why they both can't live together in peace.

 

However, decades of ethnocentrist education has made the terrorist feel what they do is right and good, and for God. I think everyone, true Muslims and everyone else, knows better than that.

 

However, peace does not sell, and the media would rather present Israeli's as oppressors or Palestinians as terrorists to the world, because as long as their is conflict and violence, people will watch the news.

 

Media bias disallows us to see the truth of the situation. That Israeli citizens want to be secure in their homeland, and Palestinians want a homeland of their own.

 

The media would have us believe that the Israeli's don't want the Palestinians to have a home (which is for the most part not the case). And, they would have us believe that all the Palestinians support the terrorists (which is also not the case).

 

It's all a disgusting mess, looking in from the outside, because of the blindness. Everywhere around the world people speak of the Israeli's in disgust, because they are being lied to.

 

They dont know that Israel is only concerned with the safety of it's citizens, and that it sees the terrorists as a threat. The terrorists only need to disarm themselves for peace to be at hand.

 

However, they keep fighting a strawman foe, because that is what they were told all their life was there.

[mooeypoo]

I have prepared an entire reply to Severian's claims, full of my opinions and views. But then, I read his replies, and everyone else's again, and decided I shouldn't waste my time.

 

Severian, I respect you as a person dearly, but you are utterly ignorant in the matter. Before you make utterly ignorant claims, I would suggest you check and cross refference your information.

 

Claiming Terrorists don't want you dead is beyond ignorance, it's burying your head in the sand. I am not going to bring you any of my refferences, seeing as you don't trust anything I -- as an Israeli -- will give you. So I will trust your own sense of logic, and urge you to go check some history on bombings in WTC (were those people insulting Islam?) or the US Embasies, or many other terrorist acts that were not in israel, or against Israel, or against the Jewish Nation.

 

I will ignore your insinuations about my people's actions, since you obviously have no practical knowledge on the matter.

 

You can - and probably will - argue with me, but you just seem to be giving out claims that are just mistaken and unbased. There is no country in the world that claims terrorism doesn't touch it. If you do, you have no idea about the world affairs.

 

Go check yourself, and your sources. Don't believe me, as a western person who lived in the middle of a conflict that just now starts touching your own country. Don't. Go read for yourself on the meaning of "Jihad of the Sword". Go watch some El Manar, El Jazera, go read some of the Arabic Newspapers, see how they portray "Infidels", how they burn the American flags, how they selebrate on rooftops when the WTC happened (and each year after). Go listen to Arabic Radio Stations, go study these yourself.

 

Don't believe the horrible soldier.

 

I am not going to waste my time arguing with someone who is reffering to me and the friends I have lost on the fight against terrorism as heartless killers, while he sits in his comfortable chair in front of a computer, safe from bombings, or exploding schoolbusses, or shootouts in malls that kill a few babies, chatting about affairs he knows nothing about.

 

How utterly comfortable, and incredibly condecending of you.

 

You want to ignore the situation? Go bury your head in the sand, but don't dare reffer to me as a murderer, without you knowing what is going on in my country.

 

 

 

Good luck to you.

 

~moo

[mooeypoo]

And let's face it' date=' this is a hard topic to debate. For one reason espeically. People like to label you. If you support Israel, you are immediately labelled as 'anti-Palestinian.' And from the other side, if you are Palestinian, you are obviously a terrorist.

[/quote']

You are right, but let me tell you that this is only an "out-of-israel" type of thinking. In israel, not all palestinians (not even most of them) are concidered terrorists, and not all those who oppose the actions of the state are pro-palestinians, or pro-terror. This is something I stated earlier: We are stuck in an ugly situation, but we try to do our best and keep our sanity and ethics in check. We do that by debating it inside the country, checking ourselves constantly.

 

It's easy to only watch the bad things (since obviously no one usually cares enough to follow the positive things happening in israel, hence Severian's statement of "both sides not willing to compromise" which is just a staggering condecending way to only see what the Media deems interresting and full of action), and decide that the Middle East are a bunch of Camel Riding Hooligans fighting for a piece of land with sticks and stones.

 

It takes a bit of intellectual integrity to actually check things out and compare facts to actually be able to understand what the situation is.

 

It also is a very comfortable thing to deminish the subject to be entirely "black and white": GOOD vs. BAD, as the U.S.A seems to be putting it so many times. It doesn't work like that in real life. The BAD (Terrorists) use the GOOD (innocent people) for their own cause, as a human shield. There is no black and white, and gray is a hard thing to fight.

 

~moo

[mooeypoo]

Is it just me, or did no one read the history summary I posted?

 

ORIGINALLY is a too broad of a term.. how originally? 4000 years ago? it belonged to tribes that no longer exist today. 3500 years ago? It was the "Israelites" territory which would later be made the Jewish Nation. 50 years ago? Yah, the British. How far back?

 

The point, however -- and concider the fact that I actually AM for giving out land for peace --is that the land of Israel (in fact, historically, stretching up to modern day Iraq, but no sane person even suggests we should reclaim that land "historically" we do have boundries yaknow) was "originally" jewish, and only later on Arabic. The bigger fact is that the jews - though not lacking in their own flaws and mistakes - usually tended to be more flexible and compromizing (again, view history about compromizes and signed agreements in the area) while the arab countries' goal, throughout all the wars, was to innihilate the State of Israel from the map.

 

How far originally do you want me to go?

 

~moo

[Tetrahedrite]

Actually that's not biggotry' date=' it's closed-mindedness. I had the same gut-reaction to Severian's post, but I stopped and took some time to think about it, and dug past my surface response into a deeper meaning, where I found some truth.

 

That's what we're about here, you know. Dismissiveness is easy. Exchanging ideas with open minds is hard. And one of the things that I think is MOST hard for all of us Americans to do right now is to listen. To [i']anybody[/i].

Against my better judgement, I too must agree that Severian does have many good points, although he has gone about making that point in perhaps too harsh a way. Severian's previous posts about Israel's historically effective use of terrorism (eg by the Irgun and the Stern group) seems to have been completely ignored, but I think it something that is important to discuss. The present islamic terrorists would take heart in the fact that the Jewish brand of terrorism was semmingly effective.

 

Talking to some of my (christian) relatives who have lived in most of their lives Lebanon, they have a growing anger at Israel for destroying the civilian infrastructure and effectively paralysing a country that was only just getting back on its feet. This view seems to be shared by many moderate Lebanese I have seen interviewed on the news reports as well.

 

My personal view is that the present ( and overly excessive, IMO) action by Israel will only cause more radicalisation of the Islamic world and will turn around to bite Israel on the butt (metaphorically speaking).

[Severian]

Severian' date=' you have a way with debates like this, just to make everyone hate you! (no offence)

[/quote']

 

You make me feel all warm and fuzzy.

 

Er, unless you are currently living in the Middle East I belive that you are more likely to be killed by an Islamic extremist than the IDF.

 

Well, I have never had a terrorist point a gun at me, but I have had the IDF point a gun at me.

 

And fair enough if you don't care now about what happens in the Middle East. Maybe you will care when no one stops Iran and they have nuclear technology and start threatening the whole "Western" way of life. But then if you did only care when you yourself are threatend, doesn't that make you a selfish person?

 

Of course I care. I don't want Iran to have nukes. I just don't think threatening them is the best way to make them our friends.

 

Maybe you will care when the death toll reaches many hundreds and thousands? But surely you care somewhat about human lives?

 

I will repeat the question I asked earlier. Why should I care more about an Israeli citizen being killed by a suicide bomber than I should care about someone being murdered in Darfur? I genuinely don't understand why you percieve one as a problem and not the other. The only thing I can think of is race, but I don't want to believe that that is why you care more for the Israelis.

 

Severian, I'm asking you two direct questions here:

1) Would you care if Israel nuked Syria?

2) Would you care if Iran nuked Israel?

(Straight yes/no answer. You can expand, but give a y/n)

 

Yes to both. There is no need to expand.

 

OK. Another direct question(s)

1) Do you support Israel? (y/n)

2) [If no to above] how would you describe your feelings towards the two sides? Do you think they're both in the wrong? Do you have a preference of who comes out "on top", whatever that may mean, from these current circumstances?

 

No. I think they are both wrong. I think the palestinians have legitimate grievances against Israel, but they go about it entierly the wrong way. I think Israelis think of themselves as the chosen people (literally) so it doesn't matter to them how they treat other people. Killing palestinians is like putting down rabid dogs to them.

 

I have visited Israel and I must say I felt the most unwelcome that I have ever been in any place on this Earth. I even had someone spit at me simply because of my race (I presume - I had never seen the person in my life before). Why should I feel any empathy towards them?

[Severian]

Claiming Terrorists don't want you dead is beyond ignorance' date=' it's burying your head in the sand. I am not going to bring you any of my refferences, seeing as you don't trust anything I -- as an Israeli -- will give you. So I will trust your own sense of logic, and urge you to go check some history on bombings in WTC (were those people insulting Islam?) or the US Embasies, or many other terrorist acts that were not in israel, or against Israel, or against the Jewish Nation.

[/quote']

 

Well, you seem to be letting your imagination run away with you. Why don't you go back and read my posts? I said that the state of Iran didn't want me dead - I think that is quite reasonable, I don't understand why you would have such an adverse reation to that.

 

The other point I was making was that any terrorist who wants to kill me, doesn't really want me dead. He wants the people who support his enemies dead, or indeed just to make a political statement.

 

I will ignore your insinuations about my people's actions, since you obviously have no practical knowledge on the matter.

 

Which insinuations? Are you complaining that I disapprove of your military aggressiveness? Surely it is my right to disapprove?

 

Go watch some El Manar, El Jazera, go read some of the Arabic Newspapers, see how they portray "Infidels", how they burn the American flags, how they selebrate on rooftops when the WTC happened (and each year after). Go listen to Arabic Radio Stations, go study these yourself.

 

Warning: Now I am going to say something controversial (people seem to think I already have, even though I really haven't, so may as well be hung for a sheep as hung for a lamb, as they say). I don't really care about what happened to the WTC. Oh I care that people died - I always care when people die. But I didn't care more for the people in the WTC who died than the people who die horribly every day all over the world. In fact, shame on you all who place more importance on the lives of certain people simply because of the race and country and lifestyle to which they belong. All death is horrible - all life is sacred.

 

I am not going to waste my time arguing with someone who is reffering to me and the friends I have lost on the fight against terrorism as heartless killers, while he sits in his comfortable chair in front of a computer, safe from bombings, or exploding schoolbusses, or shootouts in malls that kill a few babies, chatting about affairs he knows nothing about.

 

Make up your mind. You just criticised me for saying that I was not at any serious risk from terrorists (which ironically I didn't even say). You can't have it both ways you know. And just to let you in on a secret - you are not in much risk in New York either (How many people died in the WTC? What is the population of NY?)

 

Oh, and I must really sympathise with you on that oh so uncomfortable chair you must be sitting in, in front of your computer. To paraphrase a great man's words, "How utterly uncomfortable, and incredibly condecending of you."

 

You want to ignore the situation? Go bury your head in the sand, but don't dare reffer to me as a murderer, without you knowing what is going on in my country.

 

I am slightly amused by this in the light of ecoli's comments about media brainwashing. I mean, who needs media brainwashing when you can read anything you like into my posts and believe it? Would you care to point out where I called you a 'murderer'?

 

I must admit, I am rather bemused by how rabid this post has become.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Make up your mind. You just criticised me for saying that I was not at any serious risk from terrorists (which ironically I didn't even say). You can't have it both ways you know. And just to let you in on a secret - you are not in much risk in New York either (How many people died in the WTC? What is the population of NY?)

She is attempting to relate to the current situation in Israel, which happens to involve exploding buses and shootouts. You are fairly safe from those, although still not perfectly so.