Based on ancient myths and hard scientific data, we will try to determine the feasibility of the scenario in which the eclipse at the crucifixion and the “global flood” were caused by an unknown celestial body in an elongated orbit, periodically approaching the Earth. The starting point will be the supposed solar eclipse during the crucifixion, then we will look at information from Sumerian sources and compare it with climate and TNO data to find the trace left by this body in history.

The probable date of the crucifixion is considered to be April 3, 33, which is based on geological activity data confirming an earthquake in Judea during this period,

https://www.livescience.com/20605-jesus-crucifixion.html

which in turn may indicate a short-term gravitational influence of an unknown celestial body on the Earth.

“From six o’clock darkness came over the whole earth until nine o’clock. And the curtain of the temple was rent in two from top to bottom, and the earth shook, the rocks were scattered…”

The long duration of the eclipse, from 12:00 to 15:00 according to modern concepts, may indicate that the unknown planet moved synchronously with the Earth in the plane of the ecliptic or at some angle, crossing it at the moment of the eclipse. The duration may also indicate the impressive size of this body, and the fact that it was at a significant distance from the Earth, which gave a small angular velocity.

An important condition is that it was not observed from the Earth either before or after the eclipse, which means that it was always on the side of the Sun, the name of a very elongated orbit.

All this gives us a fairly narrow framework to approximately determine the perihelion of ~0.9 AU and its longitude of 192.82°, as the position of the Earth on April 3, 33. And if we track the direction of the aphelion of this orbit, we get right into the region of trans-Neptunian objects (TNO), which makes us think more seriously.

But first, let's try to find the period by tracking the previous approach. We will allow ourselves to assume that the Babylonian cosmogony, especially the famous poem about the creation of the world, does contain retold information about a certain celestial catastrophe that the Sumerian civilization experienced at the dawn of its existence. We will not go into the details of the interpretation due to its complexity, but only assume that the antediluvian period and the period after are divided precisely by this event.

The earliest mention of a flood in the myth of Ziusudra (c. 2900 BC) tells us that the last kingdom before the flood was in Shuruppak, which according to modern data falls at the end of 4000 BC.

As the myth says:

"Then the flood passed over the earth"

"After the flood passed, and the kingdom came down from heaven, the kingdom was in Kish."

A major flood occurred in Shuruppak and some other Sumerian cities (Ur, Uruk and Kish) around 3200-3000 BC. At a depth of 4-5 meters, the Schmidt expedition discovered a layer of river sediments made of clay and silt.

The Pior oscillation, a sharply onset cold and wet period in the climatic history of the Holocene from 3200 to 2900 BC, dates back to approximately this period. The spatial extent of the change is unclear; moreover, it does not appear as a major or even identifiable event in hemispheric temperature reconstructions.

In the Middle East, the surface of the Dead Sea rose by almost 100 meters, then dropped to levels close to today's. Some commentators have linked this climate change to the end of the Uruk period, the Dark Ages associated with the Gilgamesh flood, and the Great Flood of Genesis.

The causes of the Piora Oscillation are a matter of debate. Ice cores from Greenland show an increase in methane and sulfates around 3250 BCE, suggesting a catastrophe, either a volcanic eruption or a meteorite or asteroid impact.

https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Пиорское_волокнание

In various Old Testament traditions, the year of the flood is close to 3250 BC. According to the Hebrew text, the Great Flood began in 1656 from the Creation of the world (Adam). According to the Byzantine era, this corresponds to 3853 BC. Some Septuagint codes give 3247 BC. The beginning of the Jewish era is also close to 3761 BC.

According to ancient Armenian legend, in 3669 BC, the patriarch Noah founded an ancient settlement in Armenia after the flood and called it "Nakhichevan" (Noah's original place of residence).

This sudden and possibly catastrophic climate change could be the result of a gravitational perturbation due to a brief encounter with a hypothetical planet in an elongated orbit. Its period can therefore be taken as 3250 years or one of these dates.

We can now visualize the orbit. To do this, we use a scaled-down version of Space Flight Simulator with realistic orbits and Sedna as a reference. We then superimpose this (highlighted) on the orbits of the TNOs (pic.)

The result is a clear trace of a past impact and a troublemaker that broke through the outer belts of the Sun with systems lurked behind the sun in an extreme orbit. This suggests a direct connection between the tilt of the earth's axis and the tilts of the orbits of TNOs in the range of 21.56° - 24.05°. Perhaps the version about the planet Tiamat in the asteroid belt, which became the Earth, is also true.

It is noteworthy that the best resonances are given by the period of 3761 years.

Resonance with Pluto: 91:6 (deviation 0.17%, probability 35%) - one of the most accurate among all the periods considered (3669, 3853, 3247, 3274 years).

Resonances with TNOs: Three exact resonances with a deviation of <0.5%:

2013 RF98: 11:7 (0.09%, 25%).

2007 TG422: 19:7 (0.16%, 20%).

2004 VN112: 31:20 (0.24%, 25%).

Additional resonances with TNO: 2013 FT28 (5:4, 0.41%, 25%), 2014 FE72 (39:2, 0.51%, 20%).

Resonances with Neptune:

23:1 (1.05%, 40%).

45:2 (1.15%, 35%).

Less accurate than the period of 3853 (0.46%), but comparable with others.

Therefore, we will include 3751 in the parameters of a hypothetical planet, which can rightfully be called Nibiru.

Period 3761 years

Semi-axis 242 AU

Eccentricity 0.99

Perihelion ~1.0 AU

Orbital inclination 23.4°

Longitude of ascending node ≈192.82°°

“Let his name be Nebiru, who holds the middle,

Let him fix the paths of the stars in the sky,

Let him feed all the gods like sheep.”

1 hour ago, MasterOgon said:

The starting point will be the supposed solar eclipse during the crucifixion

How big of an object can cause a faux eclipse of that duration? How fast is it moving in this orbit at that time? Does that fit with your proposed orbit? What is its mass, given the size?

Are there any records of seeing this huge object in the sky before and after the event?

it was at a significant distance from the Earth, which gave a small angular velocity.

Which means really, really big, because it needs sufficient angular size to completely block the sun for 3 hours.

This all requires clarification, it is difficult for me to make precise calculations, and even more so it is variable. Perhaps it was a transit, not an eclipse, or maybe the overlap is larger than the sun or just an exaggeration. I believe the size is twice or more than the Earth. The speed at perihelion is 41 km / s.

Observations create a problem because there are none during that period, although in less than a year it should have been close. The time of crossing the solar system is known - half a year crossing the orbit of Mersa (2 times) 2 years orbit of Jupiter.

The only thing that can be connected is the mention of celestial objects by Flavius, dating back to the time shortly before the Jewish War of 66-71:

“They did not believe in the clear signs that foreshadowed the coming destruction, and did not ponder them. Like deaf and blind, and without mind, they missed the clear voice of Heaven, which repeatedly warned them. These were the signs. A star appeared over the city, having the form of a sword, and for a whole year a comet stood. Just before the fall from the Romans and the declaration of war, when the people gathered for the feast of unleavened bread, on the eighth day of the month of Xantica, at the ninth hour of the night, the altar and the temple were suddenly illuminated with such a bright light as in broad daylight, and this bright radiance lasted about half an hour.”

And a strange parallel with Jesus:

“Before sunset, over the whole country, chariots were seen racing in the clouds and armed detachments surrounding the cities. Then, on the feast of Pentecost, the priests, as they claimed, having entered at night, according to the custom of the service, into the inner porch, first heard a kind of bustle and noise, after which many voices were heard: “Come on, let us leave here!” The following fact is even more significant. A certain Joshua, the son of Anan, a simple man from the village, four years before the war, when deep peace and complete prosperity reigned in the city, arrived there for that feast when, according to custom, all the Jews build tabernacles to honor God, and near the temple he suddenly began to proclaim: “A voice from the east, a voice from the west, a voice from the four winds, a voice crying over Jerusalem and the temple, a voice crying over the bridegrooms and brides, a voice crying over all the people!” Day and night he cried out the same thing, running through all the streets of the city. Some noble citizens, vexed by this ominous cry, seized him and punished him with blows very cruelly. But without saying anything in his own defense, or especially against his tormentors, he continued to repeat his former words. The representatives of the people thought - as it was in reality - that this man was guided by some higher power, and they brought him to the Roman procurator; but even there, being torn to pieces with whips to the bone, he uttered neither a plea for mercy nor a tear, but in the most pitiful voice repeated only after each blow: "Oh, woe to you Jerusalem!"

This can be interpreted as a trail of captured debris or an error in the dates. If the dates are shifted, 33-66 is also suspicious, then this corresponds to +-1 year of relative rapprochement

9 hours ago, MasterOgon said:

Based on ancient myths

Please, unless utilized for some greater message never base your argument even partially off religious beliefs for any scientific debate.

I mean that myths as a reason for research can be scientifically confirmed. At least partially

Edited June 3Jun 3 by MasterOgon

42 minutes ago, MasterOgon said:

I mean that myths as a reason for research can be scientifically confirmed. At least partially

True, but still my friend

In 66, Halley's Comet was observed, but comet visibility does not last a whole year. At the same time, Flavius also speaks of a star in the form of a sword, which is very similar to the sodium tail of Mercury (photo), which is somewhat different from the type of comets. Perhaps in the copies and translations of his texts that have come down to us, an error was made and the year of visibility refers to a planet with a tail resembling a sword.

14 hours ago, MasterOgon said:

Based on ancient myths and hard scientific data, we will try to determine the feasibility of the scenario in which the eclipse at the crucifixion and the “global flood” were caused by an unknown celestial body in an elongated orbit, periodically approaching the Earth. The starting point will be the supposed solar eclipse during the crucifixion, then we will look at information from Sumerian sources and compare it with climate and TNO data to find the trace left by this body in history.

The probable date of the crucifixion is considered to be April 3, 33, which is based on geological activity data confirming an earthquake in Judea during this period,

https://www.livescience.com/20605-jesus-crucifixion.html

which in turn may indicate a short-term gravitational influence of an unknown celestial body on the Earth.

“From six o’clock darkness came over the whole earth until nine o’clock. And the curtain of the temple was rent in two from top to bottom, and the earth shook, the rocks were scattered…”

The long duration of the eclipse, from 12:00 to 15:00 according to modern concepts, may indicate that the unknown planet moved synchronously with the Earth in the plane of the ecliptic or at some angle, crossing it at the moment of the eclipse. The duration may also indicate the impressive size of this body, and the fact that it was at a significant distance from the Earth, which gave a small angular velocity.

An important condition is that it was not observed from the Earth either before or after the eclipse, which means that it was always on the side of the Sun, the name of a very elongated orbit.

All this gives us a fairly narrow framework to approximately determine the perihelion of ~0.9 AU and its longitude of 192.82°, as the position of the Earth on April 3, 33. And if we track the direction of the aphelion of this orbit, we get right into the region of trans-Neptunian objects (TNO), which makes us think more seriously.

But first, let's try to find the period by tracking the previous approach. We will allow ourselves to assume that the Babylonian cosmogony, especially the famous poem about the creation of the world, does contain retold information about a certain celestial catastrophe that the Sumerian civilization experienced at the dawn of its existence. We will not go into the details of the interpretation due to its complexity, but only assume that the antediluvian period and the period after are divided precisely by this event.

The earliest mention of a flood in the myth of Ziusudra (c. 2900 BC) tells us that the last kingdom before the flood was in Shuruppak, which according to modern data falls at the end of 4000 BC.

As the myth says:

"Then the flood passed over the earth"

"After the flood passed, and the kingdom came down from heaven, the kingdom was in Kish."

A major flood occurred in Shuruppak and some other Sumerian cities (Ur, Uruk and Kish) around 3200-3000 BC. At a depth of 4-5 meters, the Schmidt expedition discovered a layer of river sediments made of clay and silt.

The Pior oscillation, a sharply onset cold and wet period in the climatic history of the Holocene from 3200 to 2900 BC, dates back to approximately this period. The spatial extent of the change is unclear; moreover, it does not appear as a major or even identifiable event in hemispheric temperature reconstructions.

In the Middle East, the surface of the Dead Sea rose by almost 100 meters, then dropped to levels close to today's. Some commentators have linked this climate change to the end of the Uruk period, the Dark Ages associated with the Gilgamesh flood, and the Great Flood of Genesis.

The causes of the Piora Oscillation are a matter of debate. Ice cores from Greenland show an increase in methane and sulfates around 3250 BCE, suggesting a catastrophe, either a volcanic eruption or a meteorite or asteroid impact.

https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Пиорское_волокнание

In various Old Testament traditions, the year of the flood is close to 3250 BC. According to the Hebrew text, the Great Flood began in 1656 from the Creation of the world (Adam). According to the Byzantine era, this corresponds to 3853 BC. Some Septuagint codes give 3247 BC. The beginning of the Jewish era is also close to 3761 BC.

According to ancient Armenian legend, in 3669 BC, the patriarch Noah founded an ancient settlement in Armenia after the flood and called it "Nakhichevan" (Noah's original place of residence).

This sudden and possibly catastrophic climate change could be the result of a gravitational perturbation due to a brief encounter with a hypothetical planet in an elongated orbit. Its period can therefore be taken as 3250 years or one of these dates.

We can now visualize the orbit. To do this, we use a scaled-down version of Space Flight Simulator with realistic orbits and Sedna as a reference. We then superimpose this (highlighted) on the orbits of the TNOs (pic.)

The result is a clear trace of a past impact and a troublemaker that broke through the outer belts of the Sun with systems lurked behind the sun in an extreme orbit. This suggests a direct connection between the tilt of the earth's axis and the tilts of the orbits of TNOs in the range of 21.56° - 24.05°. Perhaps the version about the planet Tiamat in the asteroid belt, which became the Earth, is also true.

It is noteworthy that the best resonances are given by the period of 3761 years.

Resonance with Pluto: 91:6 (deviation 0.17%, probability 35%) - one of the most accurate among all the periods considered (3669, 3853, 3247, 3274 years).

Resonances with TNOs: Three exact resonances with a deviation of <0.5%:

2013 RF98: 11:7 (0.09%, 25%).

2007 TG422: 19:7 (0.16%, 20%).

2004 VN112: 31:20 (0.24%, 25%).

Additional resonances with TNO: 2013 FT28 (5:4, 0.41%, 25%), 2014 FE72 (39:2, 0.51%, 20%).

Resonances with Neptune:

23:1 (1.05%, 40%).

45:2 (1.15%, 35%).

Less accurate than the period of 3853 (0.46%), but comparable with others.

Therefore, we will include 3751 in the parameters of a hypothetical planet, which can rightfully be called Nibiru.

Period 3761 years

Semi-axis 242 AU

Eccentricity 0.99

Perihelion ~1.0 AU

Orbital inclination 23.4°

Longitude of ascending node ≈192.82°°

“Let his name be Nebiru, who holds the middle,

Let him fix the paths of the stars in the sky,

Let him feed all the gods like sheep.”

Surely, given these data, you should be able to calculate where this body should be now, and get astronomers to look for it or estimate the gravitational effect it should be having on other bodies in the solar system, shouldn’t you?

This article points out that any such object should be easily detectable:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nibiru_cataclysm

42 minutes ago, exchemist said:

Конечно, имея эти данные, вы сможете вычислить, где это тело должно находиться сейчас, и поручить астрономам заняться его поисками или оценить гравитационное воздействие, которое оно должно оказывать на другие тела в Солнечной системе, не так ли?

В этой статье указывается, что любой такой объект должен быть легко обнаружен: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nibiru_cataclysm

True. But I'm afraid they won't listen to me.

By the way, in Chinese astronomical records, there is a comet observed for a long time from December 55 AD to March 56 AD (about 113 days), and a comet observed in 60 BC.

I made a gross mistake. At the vernal equinox point the longitude is 0, and I put 180 because I could not match my orbit with TNO because it is a view from the opposite mirror angle. And then the zodiac systems confused me completely and it tired me out. Here are the correct parameters and picture

Period 3761 years

Semi-axis 241.6 AU

Eccentricity 0.9959

Perihelion ~0.99 AU

Aphelion ≈ 482.1 AU

Perihelion longitude 0°

Orbital inclination 23.4°

Lieder claims she is a contactee with the ability to receive messages from extraterrestrials from the Zeta Reticuli star system through an implant in her brain. She states that she was chosen to warn mankind that the object would sweep through the inner Solar System in May 2003 (though that date was later postponed)

Take me to your Lieder!

10 minutes ago, TheVat said:

Lieder claims she is a contactee with the ability to receive messages from extraterrestrials from the Zeta Reticuli star system through an implant in her brain. She states that she was chosen to warn mankind that the object would sweep through the inner Solar System in May 2003 (though that date was later postponed)

Take me to your Lieder!

I’d prefer Schubert’s, I think.🙂

Har! (ya couldn't resist)

The core problem for the theory is that any body captured into a highly eccentric orbit would be easily detected by now (as your link details), and any interloper body just passing through would be moving too fast to create three hours of darkness in the manner Ogon describes. Escape velocity at 1 AU is 42 km/sec, so an object between us and the Sun would have to be exceeding that velocity in order to pass on through. Chew on that for a moment @MasterOgon and see if that makes sense.

@TheVat You are right, initially I couldn't get more than a few minutes of eclipse and I should have mentioned that. Two and a half hours is equivalent to two Jupiters, that's crazy. . Provided that the movement is in the direction of the earth's rotation. But I had an idea. The ancient texts talk about comets.The tail of a comet is larger than its body and it also has length.Perhaps the sun was obscured by a plume of gas.

This creates a new crazy problem as the tail forms too close to the sun. But what if it's a volcanic planet that's throwing dust into space and leaving a dust tail behind it? It might not completely block out the sun, but it could create a darkening at a reasonable distance.

1 hour ago, MasterOgon said:

You are right, initially I couldn't get more than a few minutes of eclipse and I should have mentioned that. Two and a half hours is equivalent to two Jupiters, that's crazy. . Provided that the movement is in the direction of the earth's rotation. But I had an idea. The ancient texts talk about comets.The tail of a comet is larger than its body and it also has length.Perhaps the sun was obscured by a plume of gas.

A cometary tail is far too sparse to block out much sunlight. The density of either a dust tail or a plasma tail is lower than that of a laboratory vacuum. You aren't going to put Golgotha in the dark with that. At this point, you are clutching at straws.

I remember you when I was running science chat forums dot com - weren't you working on some type of alternate propulsion for a flying disk? Did that ever work out? I think maybe you do better when you can try hands-on experimental testing of an idea?

15 hours ago, MasterOgon said:

This all requires clarification, it is difficult for me to make precise calculations, and even more so it is variable. Perhaps it was a transit, not an eclipse, or maybe the overlap is larger than the sun or just an exaggeration. I believe the size is twice or more than the Earth.

“From six o’clock darkness came over the whole earth until nine o’clock”

That sounds like an eclipse, and dictates a minimum angular size. Either you use this or you don’t, but if you’re going to waffle, there’s not much point to this, is there? You’re admitting that the document is not a valid source of information. That the darkness account is a gross exaggeration, much like global flood is.

15 hours ago, MasterOgon said:

The speed at perihelion is 41 km / s.

How is this determined?

15 hours ago, MasterOgon said:

Observations create a problem because there are none during that period, although in less than a year it should have been close. The time of crossing the solar system is known - half a year crossing the orbit of Mersa (2 times) 2 years orbit of Jupiter.

Mersa? What’s that? More fiction?

This is a great example of something that’s speculation and lends itself to scientific analysis, unlike a lot of what we get here. A pity that you aren’t willing/able to present the science (that part is like those other threads) and just want to push a narrative.

On 6/2/2025 at 11:22 PM, swansont said:

Which means really, really big, because it needs sufficient angular size to completely block the sun for 3 hours.

Maybe it was a really elongated object on a hypothetical orbit, rather than a hypothetical object in an elongated orbit.

4 hours ago, joigus said:

Maybe it was a really elongated object on a hypothetical orbit, rather than a hypothetical object in an elongated orbit.

The big space sausage

7 hours ago, TheVat said:

A cometary tail is far too sparse to block out much sunlight. The density of either a dust tail or a plasma tail is lower than that of a laboratory vacuum. You aren't going to put Golgotha in the dark with that. At this point, you are clutching at straws.

I remember you when I was running science chat forums dot com - weren't you working on some type of alternate propulsion for a flying disk? Did that ever work out? I think maybe you do better when you can try hands-on experimental testing of an idea?

The comet tail contains a lot of gas, and it is possible only near the sun. But I am talking specifically about dust. Dust is less transparent. Could it be a hot body that throws out a lot of volcanic ash? Another option is artificial dimming of the sun to provide a temperature regime during the perihelion passage.

Yes, I worked on the disk and I started with practical experiments. This concerned aerodynamics. And I succeeded in the sense that I found similar experimental studies in peer-reviewed sources that confirm my result. But I went further and gave an explanation of the effect. Many consider this impossible without knowing the intricacies of this area, but in advanced aerodynamics it is recognized. The effectiveness remains questionable.

7 hours ago, swansont said:

“From six o’clock darkness came over the whole earth until nine o’clock”

That sounds like an eclipse, and dictates a minimum angular size. Either you use this or you don’t, but if you’re going to waffle, there’s not much point to this, is there? You’re admitting that the document is not a valid source of information. That the darkness account is a gross exaggeration, much like global flood is.

How is this determined?

Mersa? What’s that? More fiction?

This is a great example of something that’s speculation and lends itself to scientific analysis, unlike a lot of what we get here. A pity that you aren’t willing/able to present the science (that part is like those other threads) and just want to push a narrative.

I admit that a three-hour eclipse is unrealistic. This is a new topic for me and I have underestimated the possibility of this. The speed of 41 km/s is calculated based on the orbital parameters. "Merse" is a typo, I meant Mars.

The only exception so far is the dust trail. But since this has no scientific basis, let's not start from this and also from the dates and descriptions of the events, but only taking them into account, let's focus on the proposed orbit.

Isn't this in itself a good explanation for the anomalies of the TNO as the center of their disturbances compared to planet nine?

What is the basis for the less elliptical orbit of planet nine? If it formed naturally in the solar system, then what deflected it so much?

My extreme orbit suggests the capture of an interstellar body, which is quite realistic and does not require additional explanations. An interstellar object at high speed pierced the outer layers of the solar system and carried away part of the UTO, which now rotate in an orbit similar to it. At the same time, the object itself is the center of their disturbances.

What is wrong with this explanation?

Edited June 4Jun 4 by MasterOgon

7 hours ago, MasterOgon said:

I admit that a three-hour eclipse is unrealistic

I think the main issue is that you’re jumping the gun looking for an astronomical explanation when the first task is corroborating the observation. Somebody would have noticed, and documented an extended darkness.

7 hours ago, MasterOgon said:

The comet tail contains a lot of gas, and it is possible only near the sun. But I am talking specifically about dust. Dust is less transparent.

Dust doesn’t give you the mass you require for your conjecture.

You

7 hours ago, swansont said:

I think the main issue is that you’re jumping the gun looking for an astronomical explanation when the first task is corroborating the observation. Somebody would have noticed, and documented an extended darkness.

Dust doesn’t give you the mass you require for your conjecture.

Well, scientists also tried to explain this darkness with different hypotheses. But you are right, I am getting ahead of myself and it requires too many assumptions.I hope you don't mind if I create another topic to discuss the alternative orbit of planet 9 without reference to dates and religious texts.It can exist completely independently.

1 hour ago, MasterOgon said:

I hope you don't mind if I create another topic to discuss the alternative orbit of planet 9 without reference to dates and religious texts.It can exist completely independently.

No problem. But we will want some rigor

2 hours ago, MasterOgon said:

hope you don't mind if I create another topic to discuss the alternative orbit of planet 9 without reference to dates and religious texts.It can exist completely independently

I would like to suggest a title for such a thread which honors the late great filmmaker Ed Wood. Planet 9 from Outer Space.

It's up to you, of course.