Calculating time for light clock time dilation ?

[jv1]

Hi 

could this be a more simple way to calculate time in light clock time dilation experiment?

On the lower picture the side of triangle 1/2xvxdelta t’

is actually 0.5 sec time - for spweed v=0 to c

I will repeat this - the time tv =0.5 sec 

for any speed from 0 to 3x10e8 .

 

for side L of left  triangle at the bottom picture file is equal to delta t

 

this time is easy to calculate 

delta t=2L/c

to calculate delta t’

 

(Delta t’)^2=(0.5 sec)^2 + (delta t)^2

is this more simple way to calculate time dilation for light clock experiment ?

And is there time dilation at all?

 

[externo]

Time dilation occurs in a propagating medium when confined standing waves are set in motion. Lorentz transformations are classical wave physics.

Here are references:
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1401.4356.pdf
https://arxiv.org/abs/1401.4534
https://web.archive.org/web/20120228112717/http://glafreniere.com/sa_Lorentz.htm

So the Lorentz transformations tell us that matter is made up of standing waves of ether. Electron is probably a standing wave according to Milo Wolff's model.

Edited April 19 by externo

[jv1]

Thank you so much externo 

This helps a lot

 

[Mordred]

7 minutes ago, jv1 said:

Thank you so much externo 

This helps a lot

 

Not if you want mainstream answers. There is no ether in mainstream physics

Edited April 19 by Mordred

[jv1]

I am thankful to anybody who finds time to read and comment.

 

[externo]

49 minutes ago, jv1 said:

Thank you so much externo 

This helps a lot

 

Here there are wave simulators for lorentz transformations :

https://ondes--relativite-info.translate.goog/AlainCabala/telechar/download.html?_x_tr_sch=http&_x_tr_sl=fr&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fr&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Edited April 19 by externo

[pzkpfw]

4 hours ago, jv1 said:

...

is this more simple way to calculate time dilation for light clock experiment ?

No, because your math is gibberish.

 

4 hours ago, jv1 said:

And is there time dilation at all?

 

Yes. And you don't even need math to see it. You are missing the point.

Top half of image: In the rest frame of the light clock (i.e. anything at rest with it: in the same train - in your unattributed image) the pulse of light is bouncing between A and B, travelling L back and forth. This is not about seeing the pulse of light, it's just doing what the pulse is doing.

Bottom half of image: Considered from a different inertial frame, one where the train and the light clock are moving from left to right, the pulse of light makes a different path, travelling D back and forth.

D is longer than L.

But the speed of light was earlier shown to be invariant. For the same pulses of light to travel from A to B at the same speed, over different distances: it must be that time is relative.

 

 

Spoiler

I really want this to be an "extra" as the above is so simple, so this is written as a spoiler.

Lest you think of the train as having absolute motion and the ground is absolutely still:

Note that there could be a second light clock on the ground. For the train, where the pulses travels on L, the ground clock's pulse travels on D. For the train's rest frame, it's the ground that has the slow time. Time dilation is reciprocal.

 

And further, note that time dilation and differential aging (e.g. see "twin's paradox") are different things. The above is just about time dilation.

 

 

Edited April 19 by pzkpfw

[swansont]

3 hours ago, externo said:

Time dilation occurs in a propagating medium when confined standing waves are set in motion. Lorentz transformations are classical wave physics.

Here are references:
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1401.4356.pdf
https://arxiv.org/abs/1401.4534
https://web.archive.org/web/20120228112717/http://glafreniere.com/sa_Lorentz.htm

So the Lorentz transformations tell us that matter is made up of standing waves of ether. Electron is probably a standing wave according to Milo Wolff's model.

!

Moderator Note

Responses to posts must be mainstream physics. Keep your own views in your thread in speculations

 

5 hours ago, jv1 said:

is this more simple way to calculate time dilation for light clock experiment ?

It’s wrong. Perhaps that’s more simple, but since it’s wrong it’s not useful.

You’ve not incorporated length contraction.

[externo]

45 minutes ago, swansont said:

!

Moderator Note

Responses to posts must be mainstream physics. Keep your own views in your thread in speculations

 

Walking droplets are mainstream physics. Lorentz transformations are classical wave mechanics and it's mainstream physics.

 

Edited April 19 by externo

[swansont]

6 minutes ago, externo said:

Walking droplets are mainstream physics. Lorentz transformations are classical wave mechanics and it's mainstream physics.

 

!

Moderator Note

The topic here is a light clock. 

 

[jv1]

I will try to explain the logic behind this simple way to calculate time delta t’

Time and distance are scalar quantities
 

 

The speed v multiplied by 1 second is distance dv.

Distance dv is real distance between observer  in rest frame and observer/light clock on the train.

To travel this distance dv-  any distance from 0m to 3x10e8

will take 1 second.

 

 

Time t=delta t

does not depend on speed of light .

it depends on distance L- distance between

mirrors inside the light clock.

The direction of distance  dv is perpendicular to the distance L.

This two DISTANCES create triangle

and the hypothenuses of triangle is

time t=delta t’

that is pretty simple .

What was logic of using speeds v  and c

to calculate time t=delta t’

at the first place ?

 

 

[Mordred]

2 hours ago, jv1 said:

 

What was logic of using speeds v  and c

to calculate time t=delta t’

at the first place ?

 

 

In SR neither time nor length in the direction of travel remain constant. You have time dilation as well as length contraction. So both the distance as well as time will also vary depending on the observers . That's where  you apply the v and c relations here is the time dilation and contractions 

\[\acute{x}=(x-vt)\]

\[\acute{t}=\gamma(t-\frac{vx}{c^2})\]

\[\gamma=v/c\]

 

Edited April 20 by Mordred

[jv1]

I am talking about the original experiment with two observers,light clock and train

car.

SR is very well explained with this experiment .

I would like to ask:

has anybody ever tried to calculate time dilation for above mentioned experiment when the light clock distance L=1.5 x10e8m?

 

For this distance time t=delta t =2x0.5 sec=1 sec.

 

In 1 sec time 

 

1) for  speed v=1 m/s 

the train will be away from static observer 

For distance dv =1m

this is the real distance  - nothing relative about this dv distance .

 

***from the point of view of non moving observer relative distance dv relative to moving observer (with light) clock will be 

dv relative =1 

the speed v=1 m/s 

DIRECTION OF SPEED VECTOR is from static observer  to moving observer.

 

 

 

*** from point of view of moving observer 

the distance dv relative =1m/s

 

the speed is v=1 m/s

BUT THE DIRECTION OF SPEED VECTOR 

IS 180 degrees (opposite ) from the other relative speed.

 

the value of time and distance is the same for both relative positions

And the both realize times and distances are equal to real time and distance .

 

what make big difference is the direction of 

speed vector.

 

for any speed from 1 m/s to speed c=3x10e8 m/s 

the time will

be 1 sec

the distances will change - for different 

speeds in one second - the distance is

v x 1 s =dv

The speed v is not going to affect the time 

t=1 s

what is changing is distance dv.

 

when train is leaving static observer - going a way - for any speed from 0 to c

speed vector will be constant.

The speed of the light beam inside the light clock first 0.5 sec is moving from railway tracks to height of 1.5x10e8m

The speed  c vector is UP.

 

For the second 0.5 sec the beam goes from 1.5x10e8 to train tracks .

The speed c vector is DOWN.

 

If one wants to calculate the time 

t=delta t’

There is two ways:

 

 

1) to use distances

traveled in time t=delta t=1 second 

 

the train travelled for speed 1

m/s  distance eV=1 m

 

 

the distance travelled by light beam inside the light clock is 

2L =1.5x10e8 up +1.5 x10e8=3x10e8 m

 

THESE ARE SCALAR VALUES AND DIRECTION OF MOTION IS NOTBA FACTOR.

 

we can use  Pythagoras  rules and calculate 

the distance of hypotenuses. 

The distance h/c=time delta t’

 

Angle ALFA=tan (dv/2L)

is the same as in Lorentz factor 

v^2/c^2

 

how?

for time period of 1 sec 

the v=dv

and speed c =3x10e8 m

 

ONLY IN SCALAR QUANTITY.

 

 

Now 

2) to use speed v and speed c to calculate the time :

SPEED VECTOR DIRECTION is crucial.

The first 0.5 sec the vector of speed v is going away from static observer.

 

at the same time the light beam inside the clock for the first 0.5 sec is going up and away relative to static observer.

Observer in the first 0.5 seconds see the light moving at the slower speed than speed of light - but very close to speed 

of light.

(1m/3x10e8=0.3x10e-8)

thisnis the change in distance at L =1.5x10e-8m

There is no time dilation,the distance becomes longer .

 

 

 

If the light clock test is done with light 

clock L=1 m

The elongation of distance will be 

 

in 10e-8 s x speed c

 

Time in 10^-9 s - time dilation ?

does this look familiar ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[swansont]

!

Moderator Note

This is soapboxing, a violation of rule 2.8. - you’re just repeating stuff, without acknowledging corrections offered by people who know what they’re talking about

You can ask questions to improve your understanding but no more explanations from you on this topic.