ALine

Idea for a rocket engine

Recommended Posts

I would like to take the time to present an idea I have come up with.

Please note that I am a layman when it comes to the field of rocketry so please keep this in mind

My idea is " The usage of a ferromagnetic fluid, such as ferrofluid, as a replacement of conventional rocket fuel in order to develop a rocket engine which would have the potential of recycling its fuel continuously through the usage of motor pump technology. All the while containing both the rocket along with the fuel and other components of the engine inside of a casing so that the different fluids do not escape from there respective housings.

(Here is a general image of the idea that I am proposing)

(I apologize for this being done in paint, I will try and improve upon the visuals of the design at a later point in time)

ferro_engine.PNG.469c42389373a1363eec7fab792dc115.PNG

I would like to now take the time to explain this systems functions for how it would complete the objective described in the beginning statement.

I will be highlighting each section on how they work and how they interact with one another.

section_1.PNG.1ba0327beba4c2b20d6ad1d659f53610.PNG Section(1)

Section 1 Is the large fuel tank which would hold both a ferro fluid along with the highly compressible material. The highly compressible material would generate a pressure on the surface of the ferrofluid causing it to have a tendency toward the bottom of the container. Section 1 is also where the ferrofluid is recycled into along the highly compressible material.

image.png.f5dcb0854791a6202f207827870cdcbb.pngSection 2

Section 2 is the pressure controller and the ferrofluid outlet. Ferrofluid would be ejected at a controlled rate out of this nozzle using the pressure controller. This is what would cause the rocket engine to propel itself upward, that being the rocket nozzle, in a controllable manner.

image.png.116dea15ccd659d190c5157c81c5038d.pngSection 3 

Section 3 is the ferrofluid capture environment. This is where the ejected ferrofluid would be captured by a strong magnetic field generated by electromagnetic "plates". (Please note that I am using the term plates as a placeholder for a material that would capture the ferrofluid) Each "plate" would be charged by separate electronic sources. Any non captured ferro fluid would be let out into the next section. After the ferrofluid has been captured it would then "fall off" into section 4 due to the demagnetization of the electromagnetic plates.

image.png.9422395483777df7ea046a152ebce5ea.pngSection 4 

Section 4 is a ferrofluid collection environment where the ferrofluid will drop off into after it has been demagnetized. After this it would then be drawn into up into section 5.

image.png.69f256ed8182f614c50fb35b2bce39d3.pngSection 5

Section 5 is the ferro fluid recycler. Where the ferrofluid would be recycled back into section 1. 

image.png.ad94dc2b360468a0b43848aba4eedf12.pngSection 6

And finally section 6 is the back and forth highly compressible material storage and compressor. It interacts with section 1 by refilling it with highly compressible material.

Problems I have run into when trying to flush out this idea

> The magnetic field used to collect the ferrofluid would have to be strong enough in order to overcome the high velocities of the ejected ferrofluid. 

> The magnetic field used to collect the ferrofluid would have to be weak enough so that it does not impede the ejection process of the ferrofluid

> Constant usage of the ferrofluid may cause nanoscale damage to the ejection nozzle and the motor pumps over time due to well metal scraping metal.

> The compression rate of the highly compressible material would need to match the refill rate of the ferrofluid into the section 1.

> The "falling off" rate of the ferro fluid would need to be fast enough that the ejected ferro fluid is constantly being attracted to the electromagnetic plates.

> probably billions more problems

Thank you for taking the time to read over this. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, ALine said:

recycling its fuel continuously through the usage of motor pump technology

Hello! I have not yet analysed all details but initially this looks like a variant of reactionless drive. It is not possible to recycle the fuel. Slowing down the exhaust to recycle fuel will halt the rocket.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Ghideon said:

Hello! I have not yet analysed all details but initially this looks like a variant of reactionless drive. It is not possible to recycle the fuel. Slowing down the exhaust to recycle fuel will halt the rocket.

Thank you for the response Ghideon. The fuel would not be slowed down, quite the opposite in fact. Because the electromagnets would draw the ejected ferro fluid it would in fact accelerate it into the x axis instead of the y axis. The force which exist would be reserved however it would be transferred to the plates. This would cause damage to the plates over time however. (I think)

They would act like electrons in a cyclotron

(p.s. just thought about it, the distance between the electromagnetic plates and the  ejected fuel would need to be large enough where it does not cause the batteries to have their power used up from having to supply so much energy to change the trajectory of the ferro fluids nano particles.)

Edited by ALine
added some text, needed to also correct myself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, ALine said:

The fuel would not be slowed down, quite the opposite in fact. Because the electromagnets would draw the ejected ferro fluid it would in fact accelerate it into the x axis instead of the y axis. The force which exist would be reserved however it would be transferred to the plates. This would cause damage to the plates over time however. (I think)

Thanks for the reply. I think I might need to clarify; the exhaust leaves the the engine in the y (vertical) direction. Unless the exhaust is slowed down in y direction, relative to the engine,  the fuel will not be recovered. Since the exhaust has mass the change of velocity in y-direction (=acceleration) will require energy. If you check the setup for conservation of momentum for instance I think you could spot the issues that emerge?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ghideon,

Could you please re-clarify this section of your response.

47 minutes ago, Ghideon said:

Unless the exhaust is slowed down in y direction, relative to the engine,  the fuel will not be recovered.

I am interpreting this as being the exhaust is somehow no longer being present. Does this statement mean that the fuel would no longer be viable to re-use or that if a means of operation is not found in order to slow down the exhaust in the y axis it will not be recoverable due to it shooting off into space.

Also I need to go back and correct myself on a previous statement.

1 hour ago, ALine said:

Because the electromagnets would draw the ejected ferro fluid it would in fact accelerate it into the x axis instead of the y axis.

Correction: "Because the electromagnetics would attract the exhausted ferrofluid, the exhausted ferrofluid would transfer from the y-axis to the x-axis due to a strong magnetic attraction caused by the ferrofluid being attracted to magnetic fields."

Thank you for your time

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, ALine said:

Ghideon,

Could you please re-clarify this section of your response.

" Unless the exhaust is slowed down in y direction, relative to the engine,  the fuel will not be recovered. "

 

I'll clarify for him.    For the reaction mass to produce an upward force on the rocket, it has to be accelerated downward relative to the rocket.  In order to return that mass to the top of the rocket, any downward velocity the mass has relative to the rocket has to be stopped and reversed.  This is an acceleration just as much as the one producing the upwards force on the rocket (acceleration is either change in speed, direction or both).  This action will exert a force on the rocket opposite to that caused by accelerating the fuel downward.  The end result of this force will be counter any upward movement by the rocket. 

This ends up with the net movement of the rocket as being zero.  There is no way around this.  There is no "clever" way to "fool" the rocket into having net movement by recirculating the fuel/reaction mass. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Janus said:

I'll clarify for him.    For the reaction mass to produce an upward force on the rocket, it has to be accelerated downward relative to the rocket.  In order to return that mass to the top of the rocket, any downward velocity the mass has relative to the rocket has to be stopped and reversed.  This is an acceleration just as much as the one producing the upwards force on the rocket (acceleration is either change in speed, direction or both).  This action will exert a force on the rocket opposite to that caused by accelerating the fuel downward.  The end result of this force will be counter any upward movement by the rocket. 

This ends up with the net movement of the rocket as being zero.  There is no way around this.  There is no "clever" way to "fool" the rocket into having net movement by recirculating the fuel/reaction mass. 

Thank you for the clarification. I now understand why this would be an issues in terms of momentum conservation.

Edited by ALine
change on to of

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, ALine said:

I now understand why this would be an issues in terms on momentum conservation.

Even if the idea does not work I think the presentation deserves some credit; it allowed for a proper analysis to identify issues and opened for a fruitful discussion.

And also credit to @Janus for the clarifying!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of the best "I'm just a layman" type threads I've seen in a long while. All should be commended. 

ALine, you might enjoy having a look at the mathematical field of mechanics, specifically kinematics. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now