How to apply high voltage and high frequencies?

[DARK0717]

I was wondering the web and saw a Nikola Tesla video and saw that Tesla is applying high voltage, high frequencies. How exactly does Tesla do high volts and high frequencies at the same time? Does he use sound using an ancient amplifier and oscilloscope? XD or is it related to AC motors in which the currents oscillate and the faster the AC motor is, the higher the frequency/oscillations which then goes to a step up coil???

[John Cuthber]

Does this help?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_coil#Resonant_transformer

[studiot]

1 hour ago, DARK0717 said:

I was wondering the web and saw a Nikola Tesla video and saw that Tesla is applying high voltage, high frequencies. How exactly does Tesla do high volts and high frequencies at the same time? Does he use sound using an ancient amplifier and oscilloscope? XD or is it related to AC motors in which the currents oscillate and the faster the AC motor is, the higher the frequency/oscillations which then goes to a step up coil???

I'm very glad to see you are asking a sensible question instead of pushing nonsense from cranks.  +1

But beware there are many cranks using/hiding behind the Tesla brand.

 

No Tesla didn't have an audio amplifier or an oscilloscope.

But he did use coils.

The system was known as a 'spark gap device'.

Bsically the making and breaking of a mechanical contact causes electrical oscillations in an inductive system.
The faster the contats make and break, the higher the voltage and the frequency.

https://teslaresearch.jimdo.com/invention-of-radio/spark-gap-transmitter/

Remember also what they called high frequency would not be regarded as very high today.
Nowadays the High Frequency band (HF) is officially in the 3Mhz to 30 Mhz range which is not very high compared to a mobile phone in the 1 to 15 giga hertz range.

Final comment, when you break the contacts a phenomenon called inductive backswing occurs.
This can be a very high voltage and is the basis of creating several hundred volts in an automotive distributor.
These several hundred volts are then transformed to several kilovolts by the 'automotive coil' acting as a transformer.

 

Edited December 18, 2018 by studiot

[tinkerer]

7 hours ago, studiot said:

I'm very glad to see you are asking a sensible question instead of pushing nonsense from cranks.  +1

But beware there are many cranks using/hiding behind the Tesla brand.

 

No Tesla didn't have an audio amplifier or an oscilloscope.

But he did use coils.

The system was known as a 'spark gap device'.

Bsically the making and breaking of a mechanical contact causes electrical oscillations in an inductive system.
The faster the contats make and break, the higher the voltage and the frequency.

https://teslaresearch.jimdo.com/invention-of-radio/spark-gap-transmitter/

Remember also what they called high frequency would not be regarded as very high today.
Nowadays the High Frequency band (HF) is officially in the 3Mhz to 30 Mhz range which is not very high compared to a mobile phone in the 1 to 15 giga hertz range.

Final comment, when you break the contacts a phenomenon called inductive backswing occurs.
This can be a very high voltage and is the basis of creating several hundred volts in an automotive distributor.
These several hundred volts are then transformed to several kilovolts by the 'automotive coil' acting as a transformer.

 

Interestingly, a typical home-designed Tesla Coil uses 60 HZ as it's primary frequency, usually at reasonably high voltage, 10kv to 15kv using a commercially available neon lighting or ignition transformer which passes it's current through a primary coil having but few turns, and being interrupted by a spark gap in series. This alternate 60 HZ "nudging" of the primary circuit starts, and maintains, "ringing" or resonance in the secondary coil which is connected in parallel with appropriate capacitance. The degree of "step-up" may be hundreds to one, or more. Thus a million volt presence may be obtained via the secondary, whose values of Inductance and Capacitance are such that the resonant frequency may be hundreds of times the primary circuit frequency.  (whew!)

[DARK0717]

10 hours ago, studiot said:

I'm very glad to see you are asking a sensible question instead of pushing nonsense from cranks.  +1

But beware there are many cranks using/hiding behind the Tesla brand.

 

No Tesla didn't have an audio amplifier or an oscilloscope.

But he did use coils.

The system was known as a 'spark gap device'.

Bsically the making and breaking of a mechanical contact causes electrical oscillations in an inductive system.
The faster the contats make and break, the higher the voltage and the frequency.

https://teslaresearch.jimdo.com/invention-of-radio/spark-gap-transmitter/

Remember also what they called high frequency would not be regarded as very high today.
Nowadays the High Frequency band (HF) is officially in the 3Mhz to 30 Mhz range which is not very high compared to a mobile phone in the 1 to 15 giga hertz range.

Final comment, when you break the contacts a phenomenon called inductive backswing occurs.
This can be a very high voltage and is the basis of creating several hundred volts in an automotive distributor.
These several hundred volts are then transformed to several kilovolts by the 'automotive coil' acting as a transformer.

 

Thank you very much. Another question, is the oscilloscope/frequency generators have the same function as the spark gap device (which is generate electrical frequency/oscillations)? Does AC generators or motors do the same thing? How applicable or how relevant is the spark gap device to use today? if not that relevant to use then are there any devices I could make or buy to do the same thing as a spark gap device? How synonymous is sound frequency to electrical frequency/oscillations? Is frequency and voltage directly proportional? Ive also seen a device in which there is a circular disc with bolts and nuts attached in the outer circumference of the disc which then travels in between two contacts in a very tiny spacing in between which generates spark, is this the same as the spark gap device?

You can answer these question by maybe labeling your answers 1-5 accordingly. XD

Edited December 19, 2018 by DARK0717

[John Cuthber]

9 hours ago, DARK0717 said:

Thank you very much. Another question, is the oscilloscope/frequency generators have the same function as the spark gap device (which is generate electrical frequency/oscillations)?

Oscilloscopes do not generate oscillations.

9 hours ago, DARK0717 said:

Does AC generators or motors do the same thing?

What "thing"?

The same thing as eachother, or the thing that you mistakenly thing oscilloscopes do?

9 hours ago, DARK0717 said:

How applicable or how relevant is the spark gap device to use today? if

They still get used sometimes for high voltage switching- because they are simple and cheap.  They are inefficient, noisy and need regular maintenance.

 

9 hours ago, DARK0717 said:

if not that relevant to use then are there any devices I could make or buy to do the same thing as a spark gap device?

Yes, thyratrons, thyristors, triac, triggertrons, transistors, relays  etc. 

It's impossible to know which options would be good without knowing what you want to do.

9 hours ago, DARK0717 said:

is this the same as the spark gap device?

It is one type of spark gap; there are others.

[DARK0717]

3 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

Oscilloscopes do not generate oscillations.

What "thing"?

The same thing as eachother, or the thing that you mistakenly thing oscilloscopes do?

They still get used sometimes for high voltage switching- because they are simple and cheap.  They are inefficient, noisy and need regular maintenance.

 

Yes, thyratrons, thyristors, triac, triggertrons, transistors, relays  etc. 

It's impossible to know which options would be good without knowing what you want to do.

It is one type of spark gap; there are others.

to clarify

1. I meant frequency generators not oscilliscopes

2. I meant do AC motors/generators make oscillations since "it alternates". If so, can I just use an AC motor to make oscillations and a step up coil for higher volts?

[John Cuthber]

1 hour ago, DARK0717 said:

If so, can I just use an AC motor to make oscillations

If you can make an AC motor work then you already have oscillating current

What are you trying to do?

[DARK0717]

8 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

If you can make an AC motor work then you already have oscillating current

What are you trying to do?

just some high voltage, high frequency electricity

[studiot]

6 hours ago, DARK0717 said:

just some high voltage, high frequency electricity

 

I am still not clear what you mean by high frequency.??

 

There is a reason why mains frequency is set at the 50/60 Hz level.
As frequency rises, the size of (frequency sensitive) components decreases.
This is particularly seen with inductive components, coils, chokes and transformers.
This makes them smaller lighter in weight and cheaper.

Set against this arises the need for specially tuned circuits to carry the electricity.

So 50/60Hz mains is set where large heavy transformers can be founded on the ground.
In the aircraft industry 400/440 hz is common which saves a great deal of weight and bulk in an aircraft.
The trade off is fancier wiring.

Once you get into the kilohertz and above range tuned transmission lines are needed, which are impractical for long runs.
So the efficiency saving trade off favouirs ultrasonic motors, which are directly coupled and close to  their power source.
But the capacitance involved in longer transmission becomes significant.
 

 

 

[DARK0717]

On 20/12/2018 at 6:05 PM, studiot said:

 

I am still not clear what you mean by high frequency.??

 

There is a reason why mains frequency is set at the 50/60 Hz level.
As frequency rises, the size of (frequency sensitive) components decreases.
This is particularly seen with inductive components, coils, chokes and transformers.
This makes them smaller lighter in weight and cheaper.

Set against this arises the need for specially tuned circuits to carry the electricity.

So 50/60Hz mains is set where large heavy transformers can be founded on the ground.
In the aircraft industry 400/440 hz is common which saves a great deal of weight and bulk in an aircraft.
The trade off is fancier wiring.

Once you get into the kilohertz and above range tuned transmission lines are needed, which are impractical for long runs.
So the efficiency saving trade off favouirs ultrasonic motors, which are directly coupled and close to  their power source.
But the capacitance involved in longer transmission becomes significant.
 

 

 

oh I see, thank you.

 

But about what you said last time where back then, what they considered Tesla's works to be high frequencies are not very high today so are you saying its below the Mhz range? or waaay lower?

Other than smaller and fancier circuitries, what other better benefits does higher frequencies do?

When I meant high frequency, Im just curious because Tesla was working on High Frequency and high voltage electric stuff so I cant stop thinking wether is he using high sound frequency coupled with a separate high voltage electricity or the high voltage is on high frequency itself that's why I came to ask "you guys" personally to find the answer faster and more accurately.

Edited December 21, 2018 by DARK0717