pljames Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 I understand basic science. I have ask this science question twice to no avail. This is not a JOKE! Physicists state our universe and everything in it including our planet and ourselves are made out of matter/energy. Theredore we humans are solid biological matter/energy. if that is the case then, Question one, how does the energy that forms a tree, sky,or person know how to do that? Or Does matter=energy have a intelligence to do that? Maybe you do not understand the question? It is a secular science question right? pljames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydoaPs Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 why would it need intelligence to do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaynos Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 Energy and matter obay rules, science is the development and discovery of these rules. So it is not intelligence it is just following rules... If what I've said makes any sence to anyone I'd like to know because I'm quire sure I'm talking rubbish like normal :s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydoaPs Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 yea, ur right...rules...mathematical laws and such... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 Well, I wouldn't say that they're mathematical as such. You can express physical laws in terms of mathematics because it's often useful to do so. The reverse is not necessarily true. [/offtopic] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydoaPs Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 how else would you express them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 A lot of the simpler physics that I've seen can be expressed using words. You can't hope to explain things like QM using only words and no maths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaynos Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 as words... Pauli exclusion principle for example is easiest expressed as words, which states that no two identical fermions may occupy the same quantum state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DQW Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 as words... Pauli exclusion principle for example is easiest expressed as words' date=' which states that no two [u']identical[/u] fermions may occupy the same quantum state. And you can define all those terms you've used without any math ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaynos Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 identicle: interchangeable fermion: A particle, such as an electron, proton, or neutron, having half-integral spin (do you consider half-integral as maths?) quantum state: anypossible state a quantum mechanical system can be in, designated by a complete set of quantum numbers. I supose it depends on your deffinition of maths, is "I have 2 apples" maths? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjruu Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 Yes, half-integral is math. If you have a number, it is math. On topic: I think you are looking at it too "big". The electrons and quarks are made out strings, maybe, and all strings are are little vibrating loops of energy. This means that anything made up of electrons and quarks is made from energy. Right, so, DNA is coded protein, and protein "tells" cells what to do. Since protein is made of atoms, it is made of energy. Everything is just reactions according to the ruls of chemistry and applications of the four fundemental forces. Matter/energy doesn't have intelligence, but the things it forms follow rules that cause the matter to react and form things in diffrent ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DQW Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 identicle: interchangeablefermion: A particle' date=' such as an electron, proton, or neutron, having half-integral spin (do you consider half-integral as maths?) quantum state: anypossible state a quantum mechanical system can be in, designated by a [u']complete[/u] set of quantum numbers. I supose it depends on your deffinition of maths, is "I have 2 apples" maths? Let's see you explain completeness without math. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaynos Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 Let's see you explain completeness without math. The entirety of something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danny8522003 Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 Im sure intelligence isnt the answer to how things are formed from energy, as Klaynos says it just follows the rules. Following the rules a certain way (I.e. having more than one choice) lead to the state the Universe is in now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DQW Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 Let me define completeness as used by you : A Metric Space is said to be complete if every Cauchy Sequence converges in the space. That (completeness) is what makes an Inner Product space a Hilbert Space, and it is in this Hilbert space that a vector describing a quantum state lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydoaPs Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 can you explain your explaination without using math? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DQW Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 Not without math... ... but with some simple mathematical examples and comparisons...perhaps ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elfstone Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 I understand basic science. I have ask this science question twice to no avail. This is not a JOKE! Physicists state our universe and everything in it including our planet and ourselves are made out of matter/energy. Theredore we humans are solid biological matter/energy. if that is the case then' date=' Question one, how does the energy that forms a tree, sky,or person know how to do that? Or Does matter=energy have a intelligence to do that? Maybe you do not understand the question? It is a secular science question right? pljames[/quote'] I think your question is very important. Matter seems to have properties that allow it to contain information when in a certain organization/structure. Atoms form molecules, molecules form more complex molecules until there's the DNA molecule which contains information that allows it to replicate in its environment. Then the process of evolution takes over and the DNA molecules improve their information. How this information is stored is a matter of complex chemical codes that we are still trying to decode. So, to answer your question, it's not intelligence that matter/energy possesses, but its properties that arise from its structure are the basis of real intelligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eon_rider Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 I think your question is very important. Matter seems to have properties that allow it to contain information when in a certain organization/structure. Atoms form molecules' date=' molecules form more complex molecules until there's the DNA molecule which contains information that allows it to replicate in its environment. Then the process of evolution takes over and the DNA molecules improve their information. How this information is stored is a matter of complex chemical codes that we are still trying to decode.So, to answer your question, it's not intelligence that matter/energy possesses, but its properties that arise from its structure are the basis of real intelligence.[/quote'] PlJames....you got some great answers including the above one. I hope you're still not sporting an angry face. You had a great question. Just my 2 cents. When we think about matter/energy in a certain way it can appear that matter/energy is doing things with intelligence, but it appears that way because of our intelligence. If one thinks energy is intelligent that's a projection rather then energy saying "Hey I'm doing this because It's part of my master plan" Make any sense? I hope so... best, Eon. PS. It's just my 2 cents, nothing more. BTW....others might say that matter/energy is intelligent and I've heard some say that intelligence is GOD. I can't say that view is right or wrong. Others might, but I think you need to make up your own mind after much study. Good luck. It will work out fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daecon Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 I understand basic science. I have ask this science question twice to no avail. This is not a JOKE! Physicists state our universe and everything in it including our planet and ourselves are made out of matter/energy. Theredore we humans are solid biological matter/energy. if that is the case then' date=' Question one, how does the energy that forms a tree, sky,or person know how to do that? Or Does matter=energy have a intelligence to do that? Maybe you do not understand the question? It is a secular science question right? pljames[/quote'] Energy is equal to the mass of an atom, multiplied by a value equal to the speed of light, and then multiplied by the speed of light again. (Personally I don't quite work out how the individual units of distance/time/joules/mass all fit together, but I'm not that smart.) Atoms that are arranged into molecules such as DNA and grow into cells, these cells can arrange other molecules into arrangements identical to their own. "To grow and reproduce" The form of a tree, or a fish, is derived from the pattern that the DNA has arranged into, by a process where patterns that could work survived and proliferated, where as 'broken' DNA that didn't have much function, wasn't able to make other atoms into strands like itself. This is what evolution was all about, the only intelligence that directed the form of shapes for life, were the rules that meant if a cell could survive in it's environment to full advantage, and was able to make other cells like itself. I hope that helps to answer your question, if there's anything else I'd be happy to try and elaborate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pljames Posted August 2, 2005 Author Share Posted August 2, 2005 Dear Quantum Mechanics friends, Thank you for all your answers. They were all extremely helpful. I love this forum I have learned more from this forum that of books. I also learn form the science channel as well. I am extremely grateful for this forum and you. Thanks! pljames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetaFrizzics Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 The fact is, no one knows how say a flower organizes millions of atoms and molecules and chemical/electromagnetic processes to hold itself together and look pretty, as well as make copies of itself. Physics and Chemistry at best offers a few simplex examples of 'self-organization' at low levels, like crystals growing without control (other than environmental constraints like temperature etc.). Or enzymes being able to fit together like locks and keys, thus regulating chemical reactions that depend upon environmental catalyst-sites. It is guessed or presumed that higher, more complex laws govern whole phenomenae like 'life' and 'evolution'. But this is at best hand-waving and posturing given the current state of biological science. The answer *could* be that atoms and molecules can organize themselves into living creatures, but this seems incredible to some philosophers. There is no need to abandon your religion just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydoaPs Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 The fact is, no one knows how say a flower organizes millions of atoms and molecules and chemical/electromagnetic processes to hold itself together and look pretty, as well as make copies of itself. i seem to remember this thing called biology Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 What is this thread even about anymore? Closed - the damned 4th one today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts