theLegend37

Will a Second Civil War Happen in The US?

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On 10/12/2018 at 11:33 AM, iNow said:

Would the election of Oprah make a civil war more likely or less likely?

Far more likely.

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40 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

I think that is a fair question. Was 2016 "going high" or " going normal/medium" while ignoring many issues? (They still "won" the popular vote, despite Trump going low)

But it is a fair question. Is what they are currently doing a good strategy? Will it seem to have worked if they do as well in this election as was expected in any case?

I think Clinton had a comprehensive plan for every major issue: Healthcare, Climate, Immigration, Trade, Criminal Justice, and etc. Considering it is a fact that Trump's campaign broke the law to win and members of his campaign have already been prosecuted for it I would argue that it wasn't strategy which failed Democrats much as it is the process itself which failed. When a party can keep what they cheated to win why wouldn't they continue to cheat? Can those playing by the rule ever have a good enough strategy  if their opponents are allowed to cheat? Just look at the voter suppression going on in GA right now. What strategy would compensate for that? I guess democrats could sue but the courts determination would come down till after the election and won't impact the result. North Carolina's Voter ID law was struck down by a court in 2017 but it didn't change the result of the 14' or 16' election which it had been in place for Here. When one gets to keep what they cheat to win the system is broken. 

For the above stated reason among others Elections aren't always a good reflection of success in messaging. In the upcoming midterm election only 9 of the 35 Senate seats are held by Republicans. Meaning Democrats must protect double the amount of seats. The bar for success is a lot higher this year for Democrats. If both Republicans and Democrats protect all their Senate seats equally Republicans will continue to control the Senate and be able to claim victory despite not actually winning more individual races or getting more votes. That is just the landscape as it stands in 2018. Republicans can control the Senate receiving considerably less support. Democrats are heavily favored to take by the House. 

I think the focus of strategy, like the focus on rhetoric, turns the whole thing into sport. Winning becomes a substitute for being proved right. Kavanaugh was appointed to SCOTUS and Republicans in turn claimed he was proven innocent. Sport isn't what politics should be about. What happens in govt should matter more than who wins or loses. A good strategy should be determined by sound policy and not who wins and who loses. Sadly U.S. politics in 2018 has very little politics in it. After the failed Republican attempt to repeal the ACA the current state of healthcare has been left in wind, people seems to be ignoring the war in Yemen, ignoring the still ongoing refugee crisis, ignoring debt & inflation, and etc. Instead here in the U.S. we debate whether or not Trump or Democrats will win or lose. When Obama was POTUS I recall things like Drone use, Interest rates, healthcare premiums, student debt, how the accurately calculate unemployment, and etc were debated in detail. Now we debate the definition of boofing. It is a very sad state of affairs. I blame Republicans for it because they are the ones controlling every branch of govt and are also the ones who have been prosecuted for breaking the law.

6 minutes ago, NicholaiRen said:

Far more likely.

Obama was POTUS for 8yrs and far as I can tell the political environment was less divisive despite claims Obama was a secret Muslim from Kenya who hated White people and had a socialist agenda. 

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12 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

Obama was POTUS for 8yrs and far as I can tell the political environment was less divisive despite claims Obama was a secret Muslim from Kenya who hated White people and had a socialist agenda. 

Absolutely agreed. Abraham Lincoln was president for 4 years and some months before he was assassinated after the civil war.

Edited by NicholaiRen

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8 hours ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

Why do you feel the need to overstate what I say?

It was a request for clarification, not an overstatement of your position (which, as my post clearly indicates, was not entirely clear to me).

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1 hour ago, iNow said:

It was a request for clarification, not an overstatement of your position (which, as my post clearly indicates, was not entirely clear to me).

Thanks  iNow

3 hours ago, Ten oz said:

I think Clinton had a comprehensive plan for every major issue: Healthcare, Climate, Immigration, Trade, Criminal Justice, and etc. Considering it is a fact that Trump's campaign broke the law to win and members of his campaign have already been prosecuted for it I would argue that it wasn't strategy which failed Democrats much as it is the process itself which failed. When a party can keep what they cheated to win why wouldn't they continue to cheat? Can those playing by the rule ever have a good enough strategy  if their opponents are allowed to cheat? Just look at the voter suppression going on in GA right now. What strategy would compensate for that? I guess democrats could sue but the courts determination would come down till after the election and won't impact the result. North Carolina's Voter ID law was struck down by a court in 2017 but it didn't change the result of the 14' or 16' election which it had been in place for Here. When one gets to keep what they cheat to win the system is broken. 

For the above stated reason among others Elections aren't always a good reflection of success in messaging. In the upcoming midterm election only 9 of the 35 Senate seats are held by Republicans. Meaning Democrats must protect double the amount of seats. The bar for success is a lot higher this year for Democrats. If both Republicans and Democrats protect all their Senate seats equally Republicans will continue to control the Senate and be able to claim victory despite not actually winning more individual races or getting more votes. That is just the landscape as it stands in 2018. Republicans can control the Senate receiving considerably less support. Democrats are heavily favored to take by the House. 

I think the focus of strategy, like the focus on rhetoric, turns the whole thing into sport. Winning becomes a substitute for being proved right. Kavanaugh was appointed to SCOTUS and Republicans in turn claimed he was proven innocent. Sport isn't what politics should be about. What happens in govt should matter more than who wins or loses. A good strategy should be determined by sound policy and not who wins and who loses. Sadly U.S. politics in 2018 has very little politics in it. After the failed Republican attempt to repeal the ACA the current state of healthcare has been left in wind, people seems to be ignoring the war in Yemen, ignoring the still ongoing refugee crisis, ignoring debt & inflation, and etc. Instead here in the U.S. we debate whether or not Trump or Democrats will win or lose. When Obama was POTUS I recall things like Drone use, Interest rates, healthcare premiums, student debt, how the accurately calculate unemployment, and etc were debated in detail. Now we debate the definition of boofing. It is a very sad state of affairs. I blame Republicans for it because they are the ones controlling every branch of govt and are also the ones who have been prosecuted for breaking the law.

Obama was POTUS for 8yrs and far as I can tell the political environment was less divisive despite claims Obama was a secret Muslim from Kenya who hated White people and had a socialist agenda. 

Hi Ten oz

I pretty  much agree with most of this. What I meant by ignoring issues was ignoring seemingly (to me at the time) minor issues with regard to certain policies, essentially not listening to a large segment of the population.

I hoped and expected Clinton to win (of course I had no vote, and was not fully aware of what was happening). Trump should not have gotten 10% of the voters never mind 40+% IMO. I know I did not expect it to be close, and when it became close I still didn't expect Trump to win...

Other than that I pretty much agree with what you have stated,  though I don't recall anyone but Trump claiming he was innocent (he wasn't even proven or declared not guilty, but simply given his appointment)...but I guess Trump is Republican and no one denied it.

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