Tom Cruise recently aired his views on anti-depressants, because the Scientology movement which he is a part of is against the prescription of psychiatric medicine. This got me thinking, are we living in a culture where the psychiatric profession advocates pillpopping? Is it an easy solution or an effective solution? What are the effects on the depressed?

 

I couldn't really answer my question. I've seen the negative side of anti-depressants and when they are not effective, but I've never had the opportunity to see the positive. So, I'm open to opinions. Vote me do!

 

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/film/4622357.stm

 

-:Edit:- it's a multiple choice poll, so pick all that apply.

I pick 1,3 and 4 with conditions.

 

for One, I`de remove the the word "Only", unless it`s medicine specific, because some only target low seratonin levels and so obviously that would be the case

 

for Three, that`s situation/case dependant, for some it can be the case, for others it`s a chem imballance and a "good talking to" won`t do a thing.

 

number Four is the best ballanced statement IMO, they are a tool and in some instances a Very Good and effective tool and offer much releif for those who`s need is suited to a specific medication

Actually, my GF is currently (temporarily) on anti-depressants due to depression resulting from her long struggle with a chronic illness that she has only recently overcome, and the decision-making process we went through has applicability here.

 

Her primary objection was that she viewed them as a weakness, a crutch, an admission that she could not cope on her own without assistance. Also, she is skeptical of the seeming "over-medication" of society at the expense of more traditional (and hopefully preventative/reparative) therapy.

 

However, one of her doctors, when talking about it, put it this way: You're suffering, but you don't need to suffer. Why not aleviate it?

 

To my eyes, it's like taking tylenol (but with more side-effects). You take it to ease pain, not cure a condition. It shouldn't be used as a cure, but at the same time, it should not be disparaged for not being one when it can and does fulfill a useful purpose.

 

Mokele

I chose 3 & 4, because I feel that counseling is still most effective, but as YT2095 & Mokele point out, why suffer needlessly? So much of proper psychiatric evaluation is dependent on removing as many barriers to recovery as possible.

 

Trying to counsel an alcoholic while they are still drinking is next to impossible. Their judgement is impaired by the effects of the alcohol. Similarly, if one is depressed, judgement about a corrective course is impaired. Controlling that depression even temporarily can be an aid to recovery.

 

My reservations with the pill mentality is when it cures the symptoms and the cause is left untouched. This applies to physiological medication as well. Unfortunately, the thinking style of many people prone to depression is one where the easy solution of popping a Prozac is preferable to the hard work of behavioral counseling.

yeah, when you have a bad toothache take painkillers, but then see a dentist as soon as possible!

yeah, when you have a bad toothache take painkillers, but then see a dentist as soon as possible!

But if your cholesterol is too high, perhaps changing your diet, exercise habits and behavioral thinking styles might correct a more fundamental cause better than taking a pill simply to correct the symptom of high cholesterol.

But cholesterol is a poor analogy, because it doesn't cause pain during the periods when it's high. It increases risk, and can lead to death, but it is, in and of itself, painless, while depression is not (though the pain is mental).

 

I think YT's toothache analogy is much more cogent.

 

Mokele

But cholesterol is a poor analogy, because it doesn't cause pain during the periods when it's high.

As you say, the pain of depression is mental, not physical. I was trying to show how medicating a symptom without addressing the cause was detrimental in the long run.

 

I think many who take anti-depressants do so without adequate counseling, just as I know many people who take cholesterol medication without changing their the habits that caused it in the first place. This same pill-cure mentality leads them to take the easy way out when their blood pressure becomes too high, they start retaining salt and their cardiologist starts talking about bypass surgery. Most of the cause of these problems could have been taken care of with adequate behavior modification through exercise & better diet.

Tom Cruise is a nut-job. He can use his stardom to attract attention to the possible problem of the over-medication of America, but in no way is he qualified to make any judgement.

 

In closing, I leave you with this....

 

I was taking SRRi(Seretonin increasers) Anti-depressant drugs for Depression.

They seemed to aggrivate the depressive symptoms not alleviate them,but I have heard anti-depressants have been a Godsend for some people.Maybe

I was given the wrong ones?Many Doctors I'm sure don't know the correct meds to hand out to people with mental problems

 

I Now take Ativan(Benzodiazephine,Depressant) rathen than Anti-Depressants with much better results at treating my Anxiety,Insomnia and Depression

 

 

I think one has to really address the underlying emotional causes of why they became depressed to begin with by therapy and self understanding etc..to treat it effectively.No medicine will cure it.

I try my hardest not to take any drugs of any kind, be it OTC or prescription. My mom takes anti-depressants and she is perfectly happy (I think) but all she does is lay in her bed when she gets home from work. I can understand this as she is an elementary school teacher, but I am sure if she wasn't taking the drugs, she would be up and around more. She has been taking the drug since her early teens.

I can understand this as she is an elementary school teacher, but I am sure if she wasn't taking the drugs, she would be up and around more.

 

Without the drugs, no, she wouldn't. She'd probably be horribly depressed and never get out of bed even to go to her job. It's easy to just blame any bad behavior on the drugs, but these are the best option for many people.

 

Plus, well, it might just be exhaustion. Teaching elementary school does *not* sound like an easy job.

 

Mokele

There is, in my opinion, an over reliance on drug interventions for depression, but this has come about from the widespread lay belief that drugs are the cure. This is not really the case, as (I'm happy to see) seems to be the thrust of most arguments here. Drug intervention for depression (tricyclics, MAOIs, SSRIs and so-on) provide breathing space only; temporary relief that is nessessary in order for any psychological therapy to be effective (CBT is about the most effective).

 

The severely depressed 'can't hear positivity'. Depression affects cognition, which becomes selective and more sensitive to events/situations that reinforce the depressive cognitive cycle. Depressed people tend to remember more negative events and fewer positive events compared to non depressed people. This cycle is self-reinforcing and self-destructive. Depressed people become more prone to self-fulfilling prophesy. Congnition affects behaviour and behaviour affects the way in which you interact with the environment. If you behave negatively towards the environment, it tends to respond negatively, reinforcing your original cognition (reciprocal determinism). This cycle needs to be broken.

 

Drug interventions break the cycle effectively, but this is only a temporary measure. Many of these drugs (including the modern 'panacea' prozac have some nasty side effects). The purpose of drug intervention is to provide relief and to get the person in a state that is receptive to psychological intervention, i.e. one in which they won't 'block out' any positive thoughts/emotions, and where they have the energy to act upon suggestions. In short, it provides a temporary state of relief and sufficient positivity to allow the individual to begin to alter their cognition under the guidance of therapy.

 

Without therapy, or some other significant event, removal of the drug results in relapse because the underlying pathological thought processes won't have changed.

 

However, this is less true of bipolar disorder which seems to be an entirely different matter. It doesn't respond to traditional antidepressants, responding only to things like lithium and ECT and seems to result from different psychopathological processes.

Tom Cruise doesn't believe in antidepressants because he thinks all your woes are caused by the undead souls of aliens killed on earth millions of years ago by the alien overlord Xenu, who take the form of thetans who inhabit your body and cause you harm. Drugs can't get rid of thetans!

 

He just reached OT-VIII, you would think he'd figure out by now that scientology is bullshit...

'Depression and how to survive it' by Spike Milligan and Anthony Clare is a good read. A couple of points from the book:

 

Depression is a deadly disease, causing death by suicide and disabling people for large chunks of their lives.

 

Long-term use of antidepressants is non-addictive and has been shown to help reduce relapses.

 

Don't confuse antidepressants with tranquilisers.

 

The causes of depression are complex and involve physiological, psychological and social factors. The cognitive theory is one of many, but are distortions of perception the cause or just an effect of depression?

 

If you encounter someone with depression (or are depressed yourself) remember that (i) they/you cannot possibly 'snap out of it' and (ii) things will get better, and the more quickly they/you seek help the better.

 

I'll listen to Tom Cruise's views on psychology when he listens to my views on his film career!

'Depression and how to survive it' by Spike Milligan and Anthony Clare is a good read. A couple of points from the book:

 

Depression is a deadly disease' date=' causing death by suicide and disabling people for large chunks of their lives.

 

Long-term use of antidepressants is non-addictive and has been shown to help reduce relapses.[/quote']

Physiological dependence, perhaps, but it can lead to psychological dependence because whilst drug intervention controls the symptoms, it does not address the underlying problem. Until the underlying cause is addressed, the drugs will remain necessary to avoid the worst effects of depression. This is dependence. The whole idea is to facilitate independence from drug (or any) therapy, i.e. to remove the depression, not just the affective symptoms.

 

Don't confuse antidepressants with tranquilisers.

 

The causes of depression are complex and involve physiological, psychological and social factors. The cognitive theory is one of many, but are distortions of perception the cause or just an effect of depression?

Same as asking "Is lowered levels of 5Ht a result of, or a cause of depression?". The actual answer is, probably both. In the same way, these negative distortions in cognition are probably both (why it's known as a depressive cycle). They may result from an initial 'normal' depression (i.e. reactive depression), but once in place, they distort perception in such a way as to encourage chronic depressive patterns of thought and behaviour (i.e. clinical depression).

 

If you encounter someone with depression (or are depressed yourself) remember that (i) they/you cannot possibly 'snap out of it' and (ii) things will get better, and the more quickly they/you seek help the better.

 

I'll listen to Tom Cruise's views on psychology when he listens to my views on his film career!

I was on Seroxat for 6 months after my bike crash in 96, it`s a seratonin booster (for wants of a better word), do not be fooled into thinking that is has no withdrawl symptoms OR side effects, it DOES!

 

the side effects get easier in time, the withdrawl takes AGES!

 

as has been mentioned, it makes for a good Stop-Gap while taking professional advice (I had no such advice, and worked it out myself, including coming off the stuff). I`de guess that were it yto have been done properly with "Counseling" etc.. I`de have been on the stuff for half that time and had non of the problems getting off it with supervision.

the Quacks around here are just that, and will dispense the drugs all day long for as long as you want them, there`s no "CARE" involved, despite this ill treatment, my opinion is unchanged, they ARE a good tool when used correctly, as is oil of Cloves for toothache, but best to see a dentist soon as you can else even the clove oil will make your mouth bleed!

 

strange analogy I know, but it`s spoken from experience!

do not be fooled into thinking that is has no withdrawl symptoms OR side effects, it DOES!

 

Yep,Anti-Depressants certainly have been reported to have negative effects on some patients also.An Increase in suicidal tendancies has been noted by some taking SSRi's.

 

Anything that artificially messes with the brain is best avoided.

All these illegal recreational drugs like Cannabis,Exctacy and LSD have no worse effect on the brain than a lot of these Psychiatric drug.You will find that they act on certain chemicals in the brain the same way

Science is starting to prove that a lot of these illnesses are physical conditions. In other words, if you have chronic depression or OCD, you will actually see the structure of the brain change. It makes sense that medicine (a physical product) could help with these physical diseases. In essence, they are just as real as any other physical problems.

So, were there no 'structural changes', severe depression and OCD would not be real? By this logic, acute schitzophrenic episodes, for example, are not real?

actualy there is brain difference with Schitzophrenics too, there`s an institute that deals specificly with identical twins where one has the condition and the other not, the results were fascinating!

 

however I do agree that not all mental conditions have an observable phsiological counterpart.

Couldn't one say *every* process in the brain, abnormal or not, is structural changes? From OCD to me re-arranging a few synapses to remember Glider's post? Granted most are very small changes, a synapse here and there, but still...

I also chose options 1, 3, and 4 because together they cover most of the possibilities. SSRIs are not ALWAYS effective in individuals with low serotonin levels. So option 1 is definitely a valid argument but not always the case. Options 3 and 4 are pretty self explanatory.

 

In particular, I am interested in the structural differences in the brain in those with mental disorders and so-called "normal" people. In my reading, I have found that the amygdala is often cited as being implicated, especially in those with OCD, anxiety disorder, and panic disorder. But I agree with YT2095, a physiological change may not always accompany a mental disorder.

 

Mokele, you are correct, essentially, every process probably involves some sort of structural change. I guess the difference may be the magnitude of that change. Or the comparison to the "norm". Or maybe not.

 

Another question I came across during my research (I did a lit review on mental disorders and the brain) is which comes first? Did the structural changes cause the mental disorder, or did the mental disorder cause the structural changes?

actualy there is brain difference with Schitzophrenics too' date=' there`s an institute that deals specificly with identical twins where one has the condition and the other not, the results were fascinating!

 

however I do agree that not all mental conditions have an observable phsiological counterpart.[/quote']

In long term schitzophrenia, yes, but I was talking about acute schitzophrenic episodes. These hit (usually males) in the early twenties, but then goes away. If there were significant structural changes, one wouldn't expect such remission.

Glider, I don't not know much about acute episodes, but the description leads me to believe that they may be caused my neurotransmitters/hormones. That would explain the sudden onset and remission...and also that they have a tendency to occur in a certain age group and sex.