... about this legendary but entirely unknown to me until now event. A good book, too.

33 minutes ago, Genady said:

... about this legendary but entirely unknown to me until now event. A good book, too.

I remember reading an account of this in Arthur Holmes's Principles of Physical Geology, as a teenager in the 1960s. At that time Anak Krakatau was quite small, still. Now, I gather, it has grown to adulthood and has even suffered a collapse rather like that of its parent, though not as dramatic.

17 minutes ago, exchemist said:

I remember reading an account of this in Arthur Holmes's Principles of Physical Geology, as a teenager in the 1960s. At that time Anak Krakatau was quite small, still. Now, I gather, it has grown to adulthood and has even suffered a collapse rather like that of its parent, though not as dramatic.

Did it have an explanation of plate tectonics then?

27 minutes ago, Genady said:

Did it have an explanation of plate tectonics then?

Yes! That was why my mother, then teaching geography at the local girls' grammar school, bought the book. Plate tectonics was the new thing. She was quite excited by it and so, having a scientifically-minded boy's interest in volcanoes, I read parts of the book myself.

Of course the detailed understanding of how volcanoes arise behind subduction zones has progressed hugely since then, but the principle was already there.

Edited February 5Feb 5 by exchemist

1 hour ago, Genady said:

... about this legendary but entirely unknown to me until now event. A good book, too.

59 minutes ago, exchemist said:

I remember reading an account of this in Arthur Holmes's Principles of Physical Geology, as a teenager in the 1960s. At that time Anak Krakatau was quite small, still. Now, I gather, it has grown to adulthood and has even suffered a collapse rather like that of its parent, though not as dramatic.

40 minutes ago, Genady said:

Did it have an explanation of plate tectonics then?

I have two copies of Holmes classic.

The first written I think written prewar which does not mention plate tectonics (though it did speculatte about continental drift) but it has so much useful information that is still correct that I keep it

The second from the late 60s when Holmes had becme a convert and rewritten many things, including adding early tectoniic material.

A really good modern book by Clive Oppenheimer from Cambridge University Press provides probably the most comprehensive history of eruptions on Earth.

6 minutes ago, studiot said:

I have two copies of Holmes classic.

The first written I think written prewar which does not mention plate tectonics (though it did speculatte about continental drift) but it has so much useful information that is still correct that I keep it

The second from the late 60s when Holmes had becme a convert and rewritten many things, including adding early tectoniic material.

A really good modern book by Clive Oppenheimer from Cambridge University Press provides probably the most comprehensive history of eruptions on Earth.

Thank you. Added to the wishlist.

1 minute ago, studiot said:

I have two copies of Holmes classic.

The first written I think written prewar which does not mention plate tectonics (though it did speculatte about continental drift) but it has so much useful information that is still correct that I keep it

The second from the late 60s when Holmes had becme a convert and rewritten many things, including adding early tectoniic material.

A really good modern book by Clive Oppenheimer from Cambridge University Press provides probably the most comprehensive history of eruptions on Earth.

Holmes also contained a dramatic account of the 1902 eruption of la montagne Pelée which destroyed st. Pierre in Martinique, which made a great impression on me. At that time, the term he used for what we now call a pyroclastic flow was une nuée ardente. I think it may have originated with that eruption.

Some years ago I climbed the mountain with my wife and son, as far as the 1st crater rim. Bizarrely, she was rung up by her uncle in Paris, just as we reached the ridge. He had no idea where we were.

The ruins of St. Pierre are a sombre reminder of the tragedy. 20,000 people perished. I think only three survived, one of them, ironically, a condemned convict in a deep cell in the prison, who subsequently earned a living by showing off the scars on his back from the burns.

They never had the heart to rebuild, establishing a new capital at Fort de France.

Edited February 5Feb 5 by exchemist

5 minutes ago, exchemist said:

Holmes also contained a dramatic account of the 1902 eruption of la montagne Pelée which destroyed st. Pierre in Martinique, which made a great impression on me. At that time, the term he used for what we now call a pyroclastic flow was une nuée ardente. I think it may have originated with that eruption.

Some years ago I climbed the mountain with my wife and son, as far as the 1st crater rim. Bizarrely, she was rung up by her uncle in Paris, just as we reached the ridge. He had no idea where we were.

The ruins of St. Pierre are a sombre reminder of the tragedy. 20,000 people perished. I think only three survived, one of them, ironically, a condemned convict in a deep cell in the prison, who subsequently earned a living by showing off the scars on his back from the burns.

They never had the heart to rebuild, establishing a new capital at Fort de France.

The story of that convict, with a bit more details (he was jailed again later) is mentioned in the Krakatoa book.

Ludger Sylbaris - Wikipedia

15 minutes ago, Genady said:

The story of that convict, with a bit more details (he was jailed again later) is mentioned in the Krakatoa book.

Ludger Sylbaris - Wikipedia

That’s interesting. Seems the story of him being on death row is untrue. Also I was wrong about the number who died: 30,000 not 20, 000. Lacroix, who was among the first on the scene, took dramatic pictures of the aftermath which Holmes reproduced in the book, including the sinister “spine”, turdlike, of almost solid lava, which was extruded up to a height of I think ~ 100m afterwards, though it soon crumbled. It even glowed in the dark, creepily, for a bit, I think. You can visit Sylbaris’s cell among the ruins.

I found Martinique, being part of France, orderly and good to visit. I tried my first ti’ punch there - something I often make at home now in the summer. Needs rhum agricole, which I buy in France - Bacardi no good at all for it. We also tried sugar cane juice, on the beach. Very good and with far more flavour than I was expecting. (But you will know all this, being in the Caribbean yourself.🙂)

Edited February 5Feb 5 by exchemist

39 minutes ago, exchemist said:

That’s interesting. Seems the story of him being on death row is untrue. Also I was wrong about the number who died: 30,000 not 20, 000. Lacroix, who was among the first on the scene, took dramatic pictures of the aftermath which Holmes reproduced in the book, including the sinister “spine”, turdlike, of almost solid lava, which was extruded up to a height of I think ~ 100m afterwards, though it soon crumbled. It even glowed in the dark, creepily, for a bit, I think. You can visit Sylbaris’s cell among the ruins.

I found Martinique, being part of France, orderly and good to visit. I tried my first ti’ punch there - something I often make at home now in the summer. Needs rhum agricole, which I buy in France - Bacardi no good at all for it. We also tried sugar cane juice, on the beach. Very good and with far more flavour than I was expecting. (But you will know all this, being in the Caribbean yourself.🙂)

Martinique is a bit far from here, but the Collectivité de Saint-Martin is around the corner. I'll visit there at some time perhaps.

P.S. In fact, Martinique is close on the map - it's just more difficult to get there from here than to St. Martin, because of the Dutch part, Sint Maartin.

Oppenheimer devotes several pages to the 1902 disaster and describes the 'pyroclastic currents' which did all the damage. These were also responsible for the same level of damage in Pompeii, in Roman times.

2 hours ago, studiot said:

really good modern book by Clive Oppenheimer from Cambridge University Press provides probably the most comprehensive history of eruptions on Earth.

Added to my list, too. I was also introduced to famous eruptions in late sixties, partly by a cheesy US movie about Krakatoa (which Americans my age may recall had a humorous geographical error), and also a story about Pompeii. I remember my 12 year old mind being blown that people over 2000 miles away in Alice Springs could hear the explosion of Krakatoa.

5 minutes ago, TheVat said:

Added to my list, too. I was also introduced to famous eruptions in late sixties, partly by a cheesy US movie about Krakatoa (which Americans my age may recall had a humorous geographical error), and also a story about Pompeii. I remember my 12 year old mind being blown that people over 2000 miles away in Alice Springs could hear the explosion of Krakatoa.

The Pompeii story was well known and popular in the USSR. I guess it was "promoted" there thanks to the Russian painting, The Last Day of Pompeii - Wikipedia.

My copy was copyrighted in 2011 (5th printing 2014) but I don't see a second edition as yet, which would include the most recent eruptions, a couple of which have been quite serious.

19 minutes ago, TheVat said:

people over 2000 miles away in Alice Springs could hear the explosion of Krakatoa.

And the pressure wave went around the world seven times!

Today I learned that the No True Scotsman fallacy is just 51 years old (it was coined in 1975 by a philosophist Antony Flew).

That Scotsman could still be alive today if he was a real person!

1 hour ago, TheVat said:

Added to my list, too. I was also introduced to famous eruptions in late sixties, partly by a cheesy US movie about Krakatoa (which Americans my age may recall had a humorous geographical error), and also a story about Pompeii. I remember my 12 year old mind being blown that people over 2000 miles away in Alice Springs could hear the explosion of Krakatoa.

Haha I remember that one: "Krakatoa, East of Java". 🤪

I was at school at the time and we laughed at the idiocy.

6 hours ago, Genady said:

The Pompeii story was well known and popular in the USSR. I guess it was "promoted" there thanks to the Russian painting, The Last Day of Pompeii - Wikipedia.

I didn't know that was the painting which inspired the famous novel by Bulwer-Lytton. So that's a "TIL," for me. I remember reading a story about it in the library when I was young, and then later Robert Harris's fine 2003 novel which got into the volcanology quite a bit for a novel. It was Harris who really impressed upon me the horror of a pyroclastic flow.

5 hours ago, exchemist said:

Haha I remember that one: "Krakatoa, East of Java". 🤪

I was at school at the time and we laughed at the idiocy.

Yep, it was quite the turkey. And there was something so dull about it that it couldn't ever be one of those campy party movies.

4 hours ago, TheVat said:

I didn't know that was the painting which inspired the famous novel by Bulwer-Lytton. So that's a "TIL," for me. I remember reading a story about it in the library when I was young, and then later Robert Harris's fine 2003 novel which got into the volcanology quite a bit for a novel. It was Harris who really impressed upon me the horror of a pyroclastic flow.

Yep, it was quite the turkey. And there was something so dull about it that it couldn't ever be one of those campy party movies.

Oh so you actually went to see it? We didn't. We just laughed at the posters for it on the Underground, on our way to and from school.

7 hours ago, exchemist said:

Oh so you actually went to see it? We didn't. We just laughed at the posters for it on the Underground, on our way to and from school.

To my regret, I saw it on tv, early seventies. I recall they would show huge boulders hurtling over people and it became obvious it was the same boulders i.e. they just used the same clip over and over.

5 hours ago, TheVat said:

To my regret, I saw it on tv, early seventies. I recall they would show huge boulders hurtling over people and it became obvious it was the same boulders i.e. they just used the same clip over and over.

1960s special effects were pretty primitive.

Today I learned that I didn't learn anything new today.

Today I learned that there is an entire international subculture of ignorant jerks bent on refuting Cantor.

6 minutes ago, Genady said:

Today I learned that there is an entire international subculture of ignorant jerks bent on refuting Cantor.

Who was he? The name does ring some bells but nothing specific.

1 minute ago, Otto Kretschmer said:

Who was he? The name does ring some bells but nothing specific.

Georg Cantor | Biography, Contributions, Books, & Facts | Britannica