CuriosOne

What I mean is when light bends in a medium such as a gas field ie fluid field in random motion with light beams or rays passing through it...

Not even sure if my question is relavant, length contraction "angles" I assume they are, is confusing me.

13 minutes ago, swansont said:

!

Moderator Note

This last bit is question raised, but the bulk of this post has nothing to do with it. Staying on-topic and focused is another issue that should improve everybody’s experience

 

!

Moderator Note

This is not the topic of discussion. Whatever you mean by “sharing a constant” this belongs in a different thread. Whatever your lack of understanding is, it’s more fundamental than the topic of the OP.

 

I think I totally agree with you..

No doubt about that...

3 hours ago, swansont said:

!

Moderator Note

“mathematics is a discipline”

One could also say mathematics is a language, with its own version of syntax, vocabulary and rules for spelling, etc.

In order to have useful discussion you can’t make up your own words and definitions. You have to learn and use the ones everybody else is. You can’t jump into a conversation without knowing these basics.

This concept also applies to math.  

Perhaps it would be better to discuss more fundamental concepts first. Plenty of people have stepped up to try and help but it’s frustrating when there is such a barrier to communication

 

Or mathinatics is not noble, in a sense to being a language..

1 hour ago, ahmet said:

honestly, your achievements are yours and no relevancy with me. 

but...it seems even if you are not as knowledgeable as @swansont, to me you are more intelligent than him. sure. because in spite of the failures I had done, you have understood the message what intended. so , congratulations. (and to swansont, I predict, I will have published materials also in english, so don't bother yourself. you are wrong. 

the only disadvantage ,I had wrote that text with my phone and I was on a urgent way,so I could not make any reform. sorry for that. 

anyway, lets go on the topic 

you claim or it is being understood that you mention that two points would be linear or not linear.

this is wrong. 

linear is a description not just for two points , but for functions. (to use just for two point is wrong)

shortly, a linear function would be the  property of a function that satisfies

f(tx+my)=tf(x)+mf(y) where t and m are scalar and x and y are vectors. (f is a function/operator on a vector space)

 

Ok so now you have my attention...

So, are these "scalers" "sharing" a constant?

34 minutes ago, MigL said:

If that is from the introduction to differential calculus I gave you two weeks ago …

1 - I would have thought you'd be further along by now.

2 - At every point on the curve of the function, you can draw a tangent line, such that 1 point ( only ) is common to both.
The slope of that tangent line, at that point, is equivalent to the derivative of that function ( with respect to its variable ), at that point.
This allows you to have the slope/derivative at a single point, as opposed to F(x₁)-F(x₂)/x₁-x₂, which gives you an 'average' over the multiple points included in between the two values of x.

3 - Points on the line/curve of a function can represent a lot of things, or, none at all.

4 - I'm glad you're asking questions, and not making assertions.

This is exactly what I needed to "be sure of" !!!!!!!! THNX...

The average "between" the multilple points, was what I was "deducing" either by mistake or intuition, calculus is pretty remarkable I must say...Thanks  again for the PDF...

Its a great way to create models of all sorts that can be of some reliability..

9 hours ago, ahmet said:

I think you are confused even very basic instructions. Joigus tried to "politely" provide basic notations or kindly tried to ensure you understand that some keywords you used in your previous comment were incorrectly used or not understood by you. 

But to better help you, i can suggest that you first know;

_ mathematics is a discipline 

_ first of firsts please ensure how maths could be better studied ( big clue: please study by writing, and feel yourself as you responsible for everything you express, in progress you should also accept that you must prove everything you say in every step of proofs. 

 

_  you need to be patient, but hardworking or having regular work ( everyday please at least 1_2 hour per day in average with the exception of course you take (if any) 

 

_ internalize first basic descriptions and thorems. 

 

In progress you can either run or fly depending your dedication or work manner. 

 

Good luck

ahmet

You obviously never taken a coarse on ciphers... 😎

I work every day and am physically fit if that's what you mean, I'm also a former model and music producer, in fact I know many celebrities and have contributed over $500.000 in free work labor, I'm a very respected artist as well "despite" the bogus reputation I've gained here...😎

Now, as far as proofs go, proof depends on a model, and there are many "i assure you" unfortunately at the sole discretion the creator,  "I assume nature is included" and assume discoveries have something to do with it..."chuckles."

Your correct on basic instructions due to how science refers to most if not all things as ""points"" then link these to "variables" to make things more complicated....

IE:

Point particles

Points

"DOT" product

A->B

GM1*m2/ r^2 " From" center of masses" 

IE The Masse's "Points"

Then we use math and the concept of "models??"

A Theoretical Model is not 100% absolute, so there goes your proof...But they can work quite well and are "reliable."

Now, The OP asks if x and dx are points on a "tangent line."

Yes or No??

9 hours ago, joigus said:

The word "point" in itself does not tell you what it is.

A point on the real line: x∈R

A point on the real plane (x,y)∈R2

... etc.

Edited: A point is a locus, location, place in a set. When you say "point" normally you imply some kind of position (distance-->geometry, topology...). When you say "element" or "member" you normally imply just set theory.

There's context missing. And as Ahmet suggested, "light cones", "faster than light", "hyperplanes"... That has nothing to do with your drawing or the concept of points.

The impression I get is, again, you're trying to connect too much in one simple concept. Points don't need light in order to be defined.

Whatever a tangent line is, that's what I mean..

The points of (x + delta h)

In regards of these 2 points are:

"2 points" on the ""tangent line?"" 

Linear

Or 2 points on the curve itself

Not linear 

I'm not sure due to how calculus was created for something constantly changing at some point in time....

Do points lie on tangents lines "only?"

From:  "The slope of the tangent" 

Or on the curve itself??

If it's not on the curve, then:

Where did that curve come from??

I'm not getting the ideas behind the following.

 ( x + delta h) 

I'm very familiar with linear equations but this does not clarify tangent points and the "fancy" albegra doesn't explain the evolution of time either cuz it sets everything at 0...

Are these Points Hyper Planes?? Light Cones?? Faster Than Light Speeds?? N Gons?? Oragami?? 

----->Standing Waves Maybe???

4 hours ago, Area54 said:

Science is about discovery. A substantial proportion of scientists are it because they are intrigued by discovery. So science certainly leads to a gain of knowledge. I hope you are not offended by the notion that scientists also welcome a salary for the work they do.

Invention lies much more in the field of engineering where profit and gain are what powers further engineering developments.

Not in any significant way.

No idea what you mean?

Of course the application of some scientific discoveries have had negative consequences. That is more in the hands of politiicians, businessmen and the general public than it is in the hands of scientists. And the vast majority of discoveries have been beneficial, or at worst neutral.

And yet, while I maintained contact with my parents during the occassional letter when I was on the other side of the planet I can use the internet to video visit with my children and granchildren every week.

 

Science has identified global warming and offered solutions. Famine would be infinitely worse without scientific developments in agriculture. Climate change, as for global warming, which is just a synonym.

Application of science can often best be achieved via business model. Do you think that is a problem.

 

Finally you ask a good question. Answer: pretty much.

All your answers seems uniformly correct, I guess we draw a balance from good scientist and bad scientists..

I truly believe scientist should get paid for what they do, obviously they need to make a living somehow, they are human like everyone else..

I think I need to start looking at engineering as the technologically innovative side and science on the more "illuminating side" I think their is a fine line between the two in my opinion and observation.

1 hour ago, CharonY said:

Actually in the modern era it has been more accessible than anytime else in history. For the longest time, philosophical and scientific pursuit were exclusively in the hand of the rich and powerful. Access to higher education is uneven, but increasing. Some countries have lowered the financial limitation more than others, by e.g. having no significant tuition fees (though there is still the challenge of supporting oneself while studying).

There are also other means of self-improvement such as free online courses that one can take to enrich one's knowledge and so on. If you are saying that benefits are also concentrated among the rich, then it is more of an economic problem and inherent to capitalist societies, not a science problem per se.

This much is true I must agree, there are also free seminars on Youtube from some very well respected College Universities..."However" I've yet to see this availability reflect the job market it educates in the real world, and see a more variety of culture working in the science fields..

45 minutes ago, iNow said:

Your approval means the world to me

The future is already here. It’s just not evenly distributed.

Your concerns appear to be more with policy and politics... or, more specifically, other humans with human failings... not with science. 

I hope so, I would hate to see the next exploration of the universe "plane ride" caters to the super rich, it's bad enough a typical telescope project is pretty pricey..

1 hour ago, iNow said:

Science is a method that helps us to better understand the universe without fooling ourselves. It allows to minimize the biases we impose on our descriptions of how the cosmos behaves, whether consciously or unconsciously. 

I like this! Especially about not fooling ourselves,  I like evidence of reality, that's if of coarse, im to act accordingly with the rest of society....My biggest hurdle is but undermining why "at least" in our modern era, technology does not serve the privilege of affordability to everyone.

Which makes me think science may be better described as technological advances for business just as any other business..

Although I may be wrong, its better to ask than to asume....

1 hour ago, MigL said:

It comes as no surprise that you need to ask the question.
( you may need to ask the same about Mathematics )

I will later..😎

Is it invention for profit and gain? 

Control?

Political and Sociological Sceme?

Has inventions from Science impacted our world in negative ways?

Social isolation from the creation of the internet which has disconnect families,  friends and is the leading culprit of adultery via online sex connections.

Internet cell use and harmful polutants therof..

Global Warming, Famine, Climate  Change?? Etc, Etc...Just to name a few..

Is Science a "Business?????"

Or is Science just science..

I can't wait to hear the replies..

8 minutes ago, swansont said:

So one internet-related idea, and not stolen because someone posted the idea on a science forum.

You could have just admitted you had nothing. It wouldn’t be as damaging to your credibility. 

Admittance is submissive behaviour I'm not syncronized with becuase there is no reason for it...I'm an honest person that uses intuition above all else...Trying to proove intuition comes from charector not "science."

Science is a "business." A very expensive one might I add..

2 minutes ago, iNow said:

You could've just replied, "No."

Oh..🤣

2 minutes ago, swansont said:

Nice non-sequitur

 

https://www.lovemoney.com/galleries/94304/stolen-ideas-inventions-radio-lightbulb-monopoly

5 minutes ago, iNow said:

Is this supposed to be comprehensible?

The asterisk * implies multiplication:

3*x^2

I'm surprised you "did'nt" know..

12 minutes ago, swansont said:

That’s simply untrue. Objective facts exist. If someone stole an idea on the internet, it was not a personal experience; it happened on the internet. You should be able to provide evidence. The problem is most likely you can’t. That’s the simplest explanation for your responses (or lack thereof)

I can respect your perspective, im glad "everyone" here has had a perfect life...

I will continue to speculate the internet and exercise cautioun when dealing with online strangers..

10 minutes ago, swansont said:

The kind of answer one expects after a BS claim has been made. The honest choices would be either evidence or a retraction. Excuses? No, not so much.

I'm not here to entertain common sense, besides there is no such thing as proof, there is only personal experience..

4 minutes ago, iNow said:

* you're

Is that 0* yours = you're 

??? Yes No ???

And how can you be welcome is that a "name?"

Just now, iNow said:

Thank you for confirming that have no evidence of your assertions nor any plans whatsoever to share some upon being repeatedly asked. .

Your welcome, ""and I know this is not the same person responding...""

This user is not so straight forward..

41 minutes ago, CharonY said:

I will also say that if the internet is the only place where you exchange ideas, you might want to try to get into a more stimulating environment. One of the reasons to go to college is to get exposed to peers and researchers so that one is not mired in one's own thoughts only. Dozens of ideas are conceived and dismissed whenever you catch up with someone over a coffee.

At some point you will realize that ideas are abundant and cheap and the real tricky bit is to make them reality. 

I agree, but not everyone can afford college, "there is also many discriminations" and even if they did they are still studying "ideas from others" and even when they graduate they need to again deal with politics to get a job...

The issue is honesty..

57 minutes ago, swansont said:

You have yet to present evidence of anyone getting robbed online. You can’t claim it happens without evidence. 

If you have not "stumbled" upon all the scandals in the history of science since your endeavours in it, then good for you as I want to encourage your positive thinking in the "honesty" and "sincerity" of the subject...."Chukkles"

11 hours ago, iNow said:

For 15 years? No offense, but you’re obviously not trying hard enough 

It doesn't matter how hard one tries, the point is no nobody should try success at any level in a world based on rules that are being followed by "civilized" and educated people that get "robbed online, have their ideas taken, or deal with occultic systems for fame and gain.

I've since learned money is an addiction and social media thrives on "ego."

1 hour ago, iNow said:

Trying to move? 

Yes, like you suggested...

Just now, iNow said:

Maybe you should move. Sounds like you’re surrounded by horrible people where you are now

I've been trying for the past 15 years....

But I doubt it's just happening to me.

On 12/14/2020 at 5:44 AM, dimreepr said:

Sounds more like your jealous...

You have the option to update your understaning...

Common sense would suggest, you chose not too...

The analogy I used was: 

"illusion of happiness" atleast where im from "everyone" thinks big but never wants to do the "work for themselves."

They want to rob others and take the credit...I see a trend since social media..

My issue is fairness not jelousy as that's what this OP is all about, why else would this happen?...->Duh..😏

9 hours ago, studiot said:

I don't know what you mean.

There has been an ongoing cycle of improved theoretical abstraction resulting in improved technology resulting in refined abstraction resulting in.....   since time immemorial.

I think it would help you enormously if you recognised the idea of abstraction and the abstract and its connection to the physical world.
I think it (not) understanding this underlies your (current) difficulties in numbers/bases/units/dimensions/powers  and probably other areas.

 

I "totally" agree with you 100% this post has been of such enlightenment its actually made algebrea simpler for me.

It looks like an intriguing field for creative thinkers and the like...

Your correct about updated technology issues especially dealing with latency issues ie "musical midi keyboards" and "computer response" sounds for music programs....

6 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

And, for CuriousOne's  (and also any non-trolls) benefit.

Computer programmers are among the people who (fairly) commonly use other number bases, rather than base 10 which most of us use.
And, because of that, they need to say what base they are using.

In particular they commonly use bases 2, 8, 10 and 16.

Binary , Octal, Decimal and hexadecimal.
And they designate them as BIN, OCT, DEC and HEX.
So, for example the number of miles between London and Slough would normally be written as 22.

If we want to be a bit more specific, we need to say that we ae using base 10- known as decimal.

 The number of miles between London and slough  is 22 DEC

That means that the number is two lots of ten and 2 lots of 1

On the other hand, you could also express it in Binary

The number of miles between London and slough  is 10110 BIN
That's

1 times 16 plus
0 times 8 plus 
1 times 4 plus
1 times 2 plus
0 times 1

 

Or we could write it in Octal
The number of miles between London and slough  is 26OCT

That's 

2 times 8 plus
six times 1

OK, back to the joke.

Now, the number of days you have to wait from the start of October before you get to Halloween is 31.

Again, if we are being careful to say what base we use that's 31DEC

 

And consider the number of days into  December you have to go to reach Christmas:25.

It's a base 10 number so we can clarify that: it's 25 DEC

But we could express the number 25 DEC in octal.
It's 3 times 8 plus
1 times 1

So it's 31 OCT.

25 DEC is 31OCT

 

 

Very informative stuff!

Especially the Oct ober and Dec ember analogies..😎

14 hours ago, Eise said:

Yes, it is obvious that you are very confused. So why did you do so long as if you understand what 'base' means here?

Let's try to explain it 'my way'. You must distinguish between the designator and the designated. E.g. when I ask you what a chair is, you could say 'it is a piece of furniture, that is designed to sit on'. You would feel pretty fooled if I would answer 'no, it is a word of 5 letters'. (I should have written then 'chair', between single quotes, to make clear that I meant the designator, not the designated. But hey, I wanted to fool you.) On the other side the same designated can be designated in another language, e.g. in Dutch as 'stoel'. Science usually does not change when you change the language. 

It is the same with numeric bases: on one side there are the numbers, at the other side there are their representations. Mathematics, and therefore all sciences using mathematics, are of course independent of the number base you use to express the numbers.

Here a list of 'objects' and some translations:

Chair        Stoel                      translation in Dutch
666          29A                        translation in hexadecimal
666          1232                       translation in octal
666          1010011010                 translation in binary
666/18 = 37  29A/12 = 25                translation in hexadecimal
666/18 = 37  1232/22 = 45               translation in octal
666/18 = 37  1010011010/10010 = 100101  translation in binary

So in the second column, we have only translations. The maths stays exactly the same, just a the physical characteristics of a chair are exactly the same as een stoel. We just have to keep an eye on which language we use, and be consistent. As an example: if we would think that '1232/22 = 45' is written in decimal, it would be wrong: in decimal 1232/22 = 56. But those are just symbols. You should always be aware of what they mean.

You meant tan( #$@ ) = @    (assuming the last symbol in your 'language' stands for '0' ).

So 360 = 4

3 hours ago, studiot said:

There is good evidence that Man's first number system was base 1.

The story of how we got from there to here (today) is quite interesting.

I'm still trying to figure out if our modern technology inherited the ideas of base systems and if they are "error prone" to human flaws..

3 hours ago, Endy0816 said:

That looks off but if you choose something like

6 to base 2

Division	Quotient	Remainder
6/2	3	0
3/2	1	1
1/2	0	1

Reassembling the remainders from bottom to top, you get 1 1 0

so One-One-Zero in base-2 or 110₂ = 6₁₀

 

Bases come  into play with logarithms in calculus.

ie.

log base-b, with the typical base you'll use being an unspoken 10.

log₁₀(100) = 2

 

Indeed. I still wonder if we'll ever switch from predominantly using base-10 again. Interesting to consider.

 

The logarithms bring upon an issue dealing with calculus and that is "nature and machine languages."

I mean to say integration..

Is that why x^2 looks like a parabola when you graph y=x^2

How in the world does anything x^2 get that shape????

From Wikipidia..

The natural logarithm of a number is its logarithm to the base of the mathematical constant e, where e is an irrational and transcendental number approximately equal to 2.718281828459. The natural logarithm of x is generally written as ln x, log_e x, or sometimes, if the base e is implicit, simply log x.

22 hours ago, swansont said:

You keep asking, in multiple threads that all overlap 

Answered here

https://www.scienceforums.net/topic/123871-did-issac-newton-know-about-numeral-systems/?tab=comments#comment-1162468

 

This was until I knew about the freedom  of cartography and how anyone is free to make one that's reliable..