Hineni7 Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Alrighty then, I need some excellent minds to help me out on this.. I am a SAR K9 handler and so scent theory is an addiction. We know the dog works of apocrine, subaceous glands, gaseous emissions, and skin rafts BUT, not specifically what they hone in on to make scent discrimination selections (i.e. following a single persons odor trail through the crowded streets etc)... Ok, so that is the background short as it may be.. Because scent/odor does not fall in a linear fashion but upwards, outwards, and tossed by environmental conditions.. Trying to understand where the scent/odor fell for human understanding is difficult when the dog goes meters (often many) off the 'track' but still makes the find. What I am trying to do is find a 'smoke bomb' colored, that as the subject (for trainings) walks and lays a trail, the 'smoke bomb' 'burns' and deposits colored smoke/oil(?) that will mirror what we as humans are shedding but in a color format so that human eyes can understand why the dog does what it does. A smoke bomb is of course, smoke.. not a good representation of odor from a human - it blows and dissipates too quickly. Too heavy an oil (or something else?) and it won't 'blow/roll/fall like odor will and it will just drip along the track - not what scent/odor does. I hope I am making sense..? What is close correlation (and easily accessible and can (burn? with a smoke bomb - assuming that is necessary) to subaceous/apocrine oils - and that can carry a coloring agent? I figured the smoke bomb aspect because it is dense and the wind will allow it drift like odor does.. Boy, I am probably confusing everyone..I am sorry.. help!! I am very open to all suggestions and ideas.. Might need to post in the Biology section.. Not sure... Thanks for all who attempt any thoughts and answers to this query 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raider5678 Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Alrighty then, I need some excellent minds to help me out on this.. I am a SAR K9 handler and so scent theory is an addiction. We know the dog works of apocrine, subaceous glands, gaseous emissions, and skin rafts BUT, not specifically what they hone in on to make scent discrimination selections (i.e. following a single persons odor trail through the crowded streets etc)... Ok, so that is the background short as it may be.. Because scent/odor does not fall in a linear fashion but upwards, outwards, and tossed by environmental conditions.. Trying to understand where the scent/odor fell for human understanding is difficult when the dog goes meters (often many) off the 'track' but still makes the find. What I am trying to do is find a 'smoke bomb' colored, that as the subject (for trainings) walks and lays a trail, the 'smoke bomb' 'burns' and deposits colored smoke/oil(?) that will mirror what we as humans are shedding but in a color format so that human eyes can understand why the dog does what it does. A smoke bomb is of course, smoke.. not a good representation of odor from a human - it blows and dissipates too quickly. Too heavy an oil (or something else?) and it won't 'blow/roll/fall like odor will and it will just drip along the track - not what scent/odor does. I hope I am making sense..? What is close correlation (and easily accessible and can (burn? with a smoke bomb - assuming that is necessary) to subaceous/apocrine oils - and that can carry a coloring agent? I figured the smoke bomb aspect because it is dense and the wind will allow it drift like odor does.. Boy, I am probably confusing everyone..I am sorry.. help!! I am very open to all suggestions and ideas.. Might need to post in the Biology section.. Not sure... Thanks for all who attempt any thoughts and answers to this query I believe it would be better if sprayed as a small mist, but then you wouldn't be able to see it well. If it was sprayed heavier, so that you could see it, the coloring agent would easily be picked up by the dog and probably counter act the purpose of the training itself. So I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hineni7 Posted March 15, 2017 Author Share Posted March 15, 2017 Thank you Raider.. I need the residual to be seen post track laid - so that the dog handler can 'see' where odor may have fallen and why the dog does what it does... If it is like food dye, not a big deal if the dog 'wears' a different color for a bit Trying to find a mixture that is both light enough to be carried by the elements, but heavy enough and sticky enough (as apocrine and subaceous oils are sticky(ish)) to stay put - AND lasts long enough (this is where smoke bombs lose their effectiveness as they dissipate quickly and the visual post trail laid is lost. This is where I was thinking some type of light oil mixed into a colored smoke bomb...? Not my forte, so I am reaching out for help Something that mimics what our bodies do naturally (odor wise)..as close as possible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 ! Moderator Note Moved from Organic Chemistry, looking for more perspectives on the same questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hineni7 Posted March 20, 2017 Author Share Posted March 20, 2017 Hmm... Either this isn't an interesting question (to outside the SAR arena) or no ideas are present... Ok, thanks everyone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharonY Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 It is probably difficult. Anything that is sufficient in amount to be seen may be potentially a) also used by the dog as cue or b) my have an odor in itself. I wonder if something fluorescent could work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hineni7 Posted March 21, 2017 Author Share Posted March 21, 2017 Hi CharonY, I am not concerned about the dog being cued as they are trained to follow the specific odor of the individual they are to find, although I appreciate that line of thought... Fluorescent would work. Having an odor, as long as it is not toxic is ok as well as the dog has to discern and work through thousands of smells anyways (grass, dirt, bugs, other humans, animals, trees, cars, perfumes, asphalt, etc etc etc) so one other one (again, as long as not toxic) isn't bad. But, and this is the key, having something that is both light enough to be carried some what by the wind, but dense enough to drop like 'odor' (the sticky part and the rafts) is what I am looking for..I think adding color would be easy - probably as simple as food coloring.. But finding an oil that can be 'carried' by a smoke bomb OR some other delivery (spraying in a mist has been mentioned but very problomatic as just the action of spraying is going to distort (more so) the action of 'normal' odor by the pressure in the release). That is why I thought something mixed with a smoke bomb would work.. and came to you all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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