The Golden Ratio

[DrKrettin]

I like to roll slow, I thought I would show you Nature's Phi and we would all get round to discussing it.

You in a rush?

 

All you have shown is a meaningless coincidence between two numbers - what is there to discuss?

[Ant Sinclair]

It might be the case that most people today would assume m/s (although not many people would assume 10⁸ m/s).

 

But a lot of people in the USA, and even more people in the past, would probably think first of miles per second.

 

And aliens on another planet might think of it as qwerkles per blonk.

 

So it isn't "natural" except to a proportion of humans at a particular time in history. It certainly has no universal meaning. Unlike the mathematical version, which is based on the way things grow in nature. And so aliens on another planet would almost certainly be aware of that as well.

Strange, why are you always shouting out for the minorities, if the Nepalese from the Himalayas don't 'click' let them ask, if a layman doesn't 'click' let them ask and finally if a Reptilian Alien from the Planet with a 50 year orbit around SiriusB doesn't 'click' - Let Them Ask!!!

All you have shown is a meaningless coincidence between two numbers - what is there to discuss?

Dr Kretin, I think it's a flipping good job you're not a Police Officer, you've asked nothing as regards as to where the C/π ×C/√π originates, Or in regards the same to why I state there is a connection between the two Phi's!

You should never be put on a murder case and that's for S'Ur-e!!!

[Strange]

Strange, why are you always shouting out for the minorities

 

 

I'm not. I am pointing out that your contrived near-coincidence of two values cannot have any meaning. It is numerology.

 

 

 

Or in regards the same to why I state there is a connection between the two Phi's!

 

I would have expected that to be the first thing you said. But go on, tell us. I'm sure it is going to be fascinating.

[Ant Sinclair]

"I'm not. I am pointing out that your contrived near-coincidence of two values cannot have any meaning. It is numerology"

 

Strange, again you're making no contribution, little insults come from little minds, your father not tell you that one?

 

 

"I would have expected that to be the first thing you said. But go on, tell us. I'm sure it is going to be fascinating."

 

You 'whinge' like like a little......., for I to be more precise......"go on tell us" - tell you what exactly, what exactly would you like to know???

[Strange]

"I'm not. I am pointing out that your contrived near-coincidence of two values cannot have any meaning. It is numerology"

 

Strange, again you're making no contribution, little insults come from little minds, your father not tell you that one?

 

 

So you don't want constructive criticism? Why post your ideas, then? (And what insults?)

 

 

 

 

tell you what exactly, what exactly would you like to know???

 

 

 

where the C/π ×C/√π originates ... why I state there is a connection between the two Phi's!

[Ant Sinclair]

"So you don't want constructive criticism?"

 

"It is numerology"

 

"I am pointing out that your contrived near-coincidence of two values cannot have any meaning"

 

If these don't register in your brain as being insulting to I then either your AI or probably Chinese!

Edited April 8, 2017 by Ant Sinclair

[DrKrettin]

If these don't register in your brain as being insulting to I then either your AI or probably Chinese!

 

But you can't be English either. Do you really say "to I" ? Have you never heard the word "me" used as an indirect object? And it's "you're" not "your".

[Ant Sinclair]

But you can't be English either. Do you really say "to I" ? Have you never heard the word "me" used as an indirect object? And it's "you're" not "your".

Again making false Assumptions, how do you know what relevance I have in using I the way I do?

 

You Kretin, why bother with your posts on this thread when all you've done is make no real contribution and false statements?

If you're not going to make a real contribution kindly bugger off!!!

[DrKrettin]

Again making false Assumptions, how do you know what relevance I have in using I the way I do?

 

You Kretin, why bother with your posts on this thread when all you've done is make no real contribution and false statements?

If you're not going to make a real contribution kindly bugger off!!!

 

Enlighten me - how do you use "I" in a way which is blatantly ungrammatical?

 

And I'll gladly bugger off if you identify one false statement I have made. Or one useful contribution you have made.

[Ant Sinclair]

'The obvious reason is that there is no coincidence between the "two phis" in other units, so what exactly is the point?"

 

You stated that when I had not even started to offer evidence for My claim that there is a Designed Phi and an As-Built Phi!

You PROMISED - Expect no further correspondence with I On this thread. ;-)

[Strange]

"So you don't want constructive criticism?"

 

"It is numerology"

 

"I am pointing out that your contrived near-coincidence of two values cannot have any meaning"

 

If these don't register in your brain as being insulting to I then either your AI or probably Chinese!

 

 

I can't see any of those being insults. They are comments on your idea, pointing out the flaws in it.

 

Instead of having a hissy fit, why not explain "where the C/π ×C/√π originates ... why I state there is a connection between the two Phi's!"

 

You never know, you might be able to prove it is not numerology.

'You stated that when I had not even started to offer evidence for My claim that there is a Designed Phi and an As-Built Phi!

 

And we are still waiting. Two pages on.

 

But you can't be English either. Do you really say "to I" ? Have you never heard the word "me" used as an indirect object? And it's "you're" not "your".

 

He seems to have all sorts of weird English tics. I think it may be a religious thing (you know, like some Jews writing G*d).

[DrKrettin]

Expect no further correspondence with I On this thread.

 

 

 

He seems to have all sorts of weird English tics. I think it may be a religious thing (you know, like some Jews writing G*d).

 

This is interesting (at least, relative to his phi). Note the uppercase O in the middle of a sentence after "with I". It must be religious or some other mental issue.

[Ant Sinclair]

I can't see any of those being insults. They are comments on your idea, pointing out the flaws in it.

 

Instead of having a hissy fit, why not explain "where the C/π ×C/√π originates ... why I state there is a connection between the two Phi's!"

 

You never know, you might be able to prove it is not numerology.

 

And we are still waiting. Two pages on.

 

He seems to have all sorts of weird English tics. I think it may be a religious thing (you know, like some Jews writing G*d).

Oh my Strange!!!!!!

 

Attached is a jpeg from a Very Reputable Source.

Strange, what is the High-Spectral Radiance being shown approximately equal to?

Edited April 9, 2017 by Ant Sinclair

[John Cuthber]

"So you don't want constructive criticism?"

 

"It is numerology"

 

"I am pointing out that your contrived near-coincidence of two values cannot have any meaning"

 

If these don't register in your brain as being insulting to I then either your AI or probably Chinese!

If they don't register in your brain as being fair comment then it's you who has a problem.

[Ant Sinclair]

If they don't register in your brain as being fair comment then it's you who has a problem.

Cuthber instead of posting more 'dribble' on My thread answer post No.38 - what approximate frequency is shown on the graph from a Very Reputable Source???

[John Cuthber]

Cuthber instead of posting more 'dribble' on My thread answer post No.38 - what approximate frequency is shown on the graph from a Very Reputable Source???

Well, Wiki tells me that

"The spectral radiance dE_ν/dν peaks at 160.23 GHz, in the microwave range of frequencies"

from here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_microwave_background

 

So it's not phi.

If we were able to study it for a long time we would fins that it was falling slowly as the universe expands.

So, the current value which it happen to have now- as we look at it- is a coincidence.

 

 

Did you think it was somehow relevant to the thread?

 

 

Anyway, did you recognise that

Your describing my post as "dribble" is evidence that you don't want valid criticism.

And your insistence that a near coincidence of the (current) peak in the µwave background and phis might be meaningful

is numerology and it's a contrived near-coincidence that can't have any meaning?

 

Now do you see thet Strange's comments were perfectly reasonable?

[Ant Sinclair]

"The spectral radiance dEν/dν peaks at 160.23 GHz, in the microwave range of frequencies"

from here

https://en.wikipedia...wave_background"

 

Cuthber, how have CMB values evolved over the preceding decades up to today, are the readings Wmap gave as accurate as the readings from experiments following it such as the ones given by the Planck Observatory?

[John Cuthber]

You can get "off the peg" frequency meters for microwaves that give 10 digit precision. I think the state of the art is something like 15 digit accuracy these days.

Since the standard (I mean THE standard) for timekeeping is a microwave emission, it's a relatively simple step to measure microwave frequencies.

 

So there's little point worrying about the precision of the measurement.

The thing about wmap and other such observations is that they show that the CMB is slightly different, depending on what direction you look.

So if the match between (phi times the number of fingers we have raised to the power 11) and ( a 19th century measurement of the (constantly varying) spin of the Earth) was good enough then you would be able to point to bits of the sky where they matched. (it's not)

 

It won't have changed much over as short an interval as decades- but it started out as the unimaginably hot early universe where hydrogen was just starting to form and where the emission frequency would have been something like a million times higher.

 

The fact that, as it falls, it passes through some arbitrary value- which is significant only because we happen to have 10 fingers- at the time we are looking at it is just a coincidence.

The sort of thing that numerology is based on.

[Strange]

Attached is a jpeg from a Very Reputable Source.

Strange, what is the High-Spectral Radiance being shown approximately equal to?

 

 

1. What is the source?

 

2. What does "High-Spectral Radiance" mean?

 

2. The image quality is not very good (could you provide a link to the original data/website?). But f this is the CMB then it is a black body spectrum with a peak at about 160 GHz. Is that what you mean? How does this relate to your post?

"The spectral radiance dEν/dν peaks at 160.23 GHz, in the microwave range of frequencies"

from here

https://en.wikipedia...wave_background"

 

Cuthber, how have CMB values evolved over the preceding decades up to today, are the readings Wmap gave as accurate as the readings from experiments following it such as the ones given by the Planck Observatory?

 

 

Your link doesn't work. I assume it should be this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_microwave_background

 

That page also has a history of the measurements of the CMB temperature starting from 1964 (Penzias ad Wilson) with a temperature of about 3K. This has been gradually refined over the years to the current 2.7260±0.0013.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_microwave_background#Microwave_background_radiation_predictions_and_measurements

 

Can you explain the relevance of this to the thread?

[Ant Sinclair]

You can get "off the peg" frequency meters for microwaves that give 10 digit precision. I think the state of the art is something like 15 digit accuracy these days.

Since the standard (I mean THE standard) for timekeeping is a microwave emission, it's a relatively simple step to measure microwave frequencies.

 

So there's little point worrying about the precision of the measurement.

The thing about wmap and other such observations is that they show that the CMB is slightly different, depending on what direction you look.

So if the match between (phi times the number of fingers we have raised to the power 11) and ( a 19th century measurement of the (constantly varying) spin of the Earth) was good enough then you would be able to point to bits of the sky where they matched. (it's not)

 

It won't have changed much over as short an interval as decades- but it started out as the unimaginably hot early universe where hydrogen was just starting to form and where the emission frequency would have been something like a million times higher.

 

The fact that, as it falls, it passes through some arbitrary value- which is significant only because we happen to have 10 fingers- at the time we are looking at it is just a coincidence.

The sort of thing that numerology is based on.

Cuthber, why are red-shift calculations used in Astrophysics and Cosmology?

[Strange]

Cuthber, why are red-shift calculations used in Astrophysics and Cosmology?

 

 

All sorts of reasons. Mainly, they are used as a proxy or indication of distance (as the parameter z).

 

Can you explain the relevance to the thread?

[John Cuthber]

Cuthber, why are red-shift calculations used in Astrophysics and Cosmology?

To get the right answer.

Imagine that I wanted to know the pitch of the horn of a car as it passed.

The Doppler shift would mean that, as it approached the pitch I heard would be too high, and after it passed the pitch would be too low.

However if I calculate the harmonic mean of the two frequencies I hear as it passes, I get the right frequency.

Since practically everything in the universe is moving away from us we "hear" it as unrealistically low pitched.

The red shift calculation lets us allow for that.

[Strange]

"The spectral radiance dEν/dν peaks at 160.23 GHz, in the microwave range of frequencies"

 

So, is your point that if we divide this by 100 billion, we get a number that is within 1% of Phi ?

 

This seems like numerology to me.

 

For example, the figure depends on using the arbitrary, man-made unit of seconds. It is only approximately true at the present time.

 

The good news is that it will get closer to Phi for a while before passing it and getting further away again.

p.s. to try and make up for the perceived insults, here is a present: an article on the relationship between Pi and Phi

https://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2017/03/07/pi-and-the-golden-ratio/

[Ant Sinclair]

"He seems to have all sorts of weird English tics. I think it may be a religious thing (you know, like some Jews writing G*d)."

 

Strange, for the Hebrew speaking folk including the Jewish people, and I, what exactly did you mean in your quote above!

 

Do you insult Muslims or the Pope like this?

Edited April 9, 2017 by Ant Sinclair

[John Cuthber]

"He seems to have all sorts of weird English tics. I think it may be a religious thing (you know, like some Jews writing G*d)."

 

Strange, for the Hebrew speaking folk including the Jewish people, and I, what exactly did you mean in your quote above!

 

Do you insult Muslims or the Pope like this?

It's not an insult to say that (some) Jews write G_d.

It's just true.

It's also no insult to use it as an example of things that some people do which are perceived as odd by others- that's also just true.

It's not an insult for him to wonder if some of the odd tings you write are as a result of a similar religious conviction.

 

It's a little impolite to point out that your use of English was sometimes a bit odd.