bradpitz Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 How can space and time be twisted while physically time and space do not exist? Confusing really. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajb Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 How can space and time be twisted while physically time and space do not exist? Confusing really. This sounds more like a philosophy question. What I can say is that we can model gravitational physics using the notion of space-time and that this description matches what we see in nature very well. The mathematical model here, general relativity, predicts that it could be possible to have time machines. If general relativity has given us such a good description of nature then we must contend that time machines could be a reality. Well, it turns out that time machines are rather exotic things and typically require lots of energy and/or negative mass. It is not clear if such things should be okay in nature, but one must be aware that quantum mechanical effects allow negative energy. It maybe the case that microscopic time machines exist! However, so far detailed analysis based on quantum field theory on curved space-times, also known as semi-classical gravity, suggest that time machines are not allowed in nature. Something always prevents them being used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradpitz Posted August 15, 2013 Author Share Posted August 15, 2013 Thanks @ajb . I find time machine is not really possible in nature but most physicists believe that time machine is possible through worm hole or rotating space. How can a black hole create worm hole ?Is it possible to have rotating space? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajb Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 (edited) How can a black hole create worm hole ? You have Schwarzchild wormholes, which consists of a black hole and a white hole with their horizons connected. These are not traversable, they collapse if you enter one. Transveriable wormholes need exotic matter (negative mass) to support them. Is it possible to have rotating space? Yes and this is another mechanism for time machines. Loosley you can mix time and angular coordinates giving paths that are periodic, meaning you can travel back in time. Other possibilities are to cut out wedges from space-time using cosmic strings. However, todate all these possible time machines seem "sick" and won't actually work. One usually needs unphyical arrangments for them to seem to work. This all leads to the chronological protection conjecture which states that time machines are not allowed in nature. However, this has not been proved in the context of general relativity or semi-classical gravity. Even then their maybe loopholes in a full quantum theory of gravity. In short, it is not obvious why time machines are not realised in nature. Edited August 15, 2013 by ajb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradpitz Posted August 15, 2013 Author Share Posted August 15, 2013 Thanks a lot @ajb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PureGenius Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 (edited) I think this is possible , building a physical time machine . It's a matter of creating the variables necessary for the proper time flow alteration within a confined radius. One method would be a mirror vortex with ultrahigh frequency lightbeams..Another possibility would be to create an electromagnetic vortex of the proper strength and rotational speeds , this would create a wormhole between two different times , this wormhole would remain stable dependant on its size and the proper variables kept constant . Great topic ajb might be the smartest guy in this forum. Also the fact that speeds inside the. Tunnel are between 10 to 1000 times the speed of light so due to time dilation there is no danger of collapse before one arrives at their time space coordinates . Edited August 16, 2013 by PureGenius -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PureGenius Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Correction it is not due to time dilation that the wormhole remains stable I'm just pointing out that the time spent inside a black hole would be under the effects of time dilation thus from inside it's a longer journey than the perspective of an outside observer . Also I have reason to believe the transfer of objects through a electromagnetic black holes is instant, one just has to maintain the correct variables to keep it open. Galactic black holes are stable and so are thier wormholes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradpitz Posted August 16, 2013 Author Share Posted August 16, 2013 If I have a space ship that can travel at speed of light or nearly and I went to a planet 10 light years away and come back to earth so I would probably arrive thousands of years in the future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PureGenius Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 (edited) I think the time variable would be 80 years so he would arrive on earth 100 years would have passed and everyone on earth would have experienced 100 years passing. On the ship they would only experience 20 years of time flow. Does anyone want to build a time machine ? Also the amount of energy to create the necessary variables is well within modern technology as far as an electromagnetic vortex time machine . Edited August 17, 2013 by PureGenius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajb Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 If I have a space ship that can travel at speed of light or nearly and I went to a planet 10 light years away and come back to earth so I would probably arrive thousands of years in the future? As measured on the Earth, which is the root of the twin paradox. This is not time travel as we usually define it. You need to travel into your own past. The modern physics term is Closed Timelike Curves, or CTCs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradpitz Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 I apologize if I am a little obsess on time travelling , so my understanding is anyone that can travel at great speed the time tickling would be slower from the observer , please correct if I'm wrong.How about the aging process of the crews inside the ship travelling nearly at speed of light would they be look like a lot younger than those people on earth? If yes how come the time dilation due to speed and gravitational force affect our aging process? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PureGenius Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 (edited) Ajb is right that is not time travel but a form of time modification As measured on the Earth, which is the root of the twin paradox. This is not time travel as we usually define it. You need to travel into your own past. The modern physics term is Closed Timelike Curves, or CTCs. To have actual time travel one must create a electromagnetic black hole these can be caused by extreme weather.The variables are nothing more than the combination of several electrical factors I.e. ionization and vortex rotation due to wind factors.Also I think time travel will be possible soon if anyone takes me seriously . Ajb has already had an offer to help me with the math but declined . The persons on earth age as we do now ie 80 year average life span .The individuals on the ship will have aged 20 years, those on earth one hundred years. So time flow affects aging there is no doubt. So if the pilot was 20 when he left he would be 40 when he returned if he had a twin brother his age would be 120 .So yes the clock on the ship ticks slower but only when observed from earth. Edited August 17, 2013 by PureGenius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradpitz Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 That means the biological aging of the individuals inside the ship will become slower relative to their time? How come? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PureGenius Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 (edited) It is an effect of the mass and velocity on individual atomic systems and their energy to mass ratio higher energy longer length of rotations etc . But Ajb might be able to explain it better . Edited August 17, 2013 by PureGenius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradpitz Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 Thnks a lot anyway . I hope ajb will give me another one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PureGenius Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 (edited) Also I was mistaken I did not ask Ajb to help with any time modulation theory.brad I think your asking the right questions , time is also one of my favorite topics. Edited August 18, 2013 by PureGenius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajb Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 That means the biological aging of the individuals inside the ship will become slower relative to their time? How come? Not really. Your biological clock measures the time in your reference frame, we sometimes call that the proper time, but it is not the best term for it. So, as far as the people on the ship are concerned they age just the same as they would back on Earth or anywhere else. It is the fact that time is relative, that is depends on what frame you use to measure it that leads to this "paradox". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradpitz Posted August 18, 2013 Author Share Posted August 18, 2013 Sir let me just clarify my understanding on what you have said, the age of the individuals inside the ship will be the same relative to the earth's time? If the ship travelled and came back 80 years relative to earth's time those crews biological age will be 80 years older ?thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajb Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Sir let me just clarify my understanding on what you have said, the age of the individuals inside the ship will be the same relative to the earth's time? Let me restate it. People of Earth and the people in the ship will measure the passage of time differently, but as far as both are concerned, they measure time ticking away in their own frames just the same as it always did. So the people in the ship, as far as they are conserned age in just the same way as they would anywhwere else in the Universe. Relative to yourself, your body clock does not change its rate. It is when they return and compare clocks that they notice a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NATO Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Backward no, for many reasons, but clocks move slower at the speed of light, that might not be time travel, but then again, we are all traveling at the 1 sec per second unless you found a slower moving object in which case if what is true of clicks moveing slower at high speed then the opposite is true at extreme slow speeds, but how do you measure speed if nothing is standing still? Backward no, for many reasons, but clocks move slower at the speed of light, that might not be time travel, but then again, we are all traveling at the 1 sec per second unless you found a slower moving object in which case if what is true of clicks moveing slower at high speed then the opposite is true at extreme slow speeds, but how do you measure speed if nothing is standing still? Lol so many typos, don't even bother reading my post again. I don't know what I'm talking about. I just remember hearing something about time slowing down when you approach the speed of light, but time may not actually be slowing, maybe your perception of time slows. IDK Is there anyone educated on this who can save me from eternal rambling Btw if you are moving near the speed of light, couldn't you launch a projectile at a high vilocity, and with your combined velocities break the speed of light? After all, the universe is already moving pretty fast, as is the earth, who is to say how fast we are going with no fixed points to measure from. If the earth was moving near the speed of light, couldn't we launch from earth at that speed+ I know there must be a reason why we can't but logically it makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myuncle Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 If I have a space ship that can travel at speed of light or nearly and I went to a planet 10 light years away and come back to earth so I would probably arrive thousands of years in the future? As far as I understood (Warning! Layman's response!), it's got nothing to do with the word "future", it would be just a biological slowing down (just like a clock, if it's travelling so fast, it will mechanically slow down). Let's suppose we have a technology that allows us to travel near the speed of light without frying up inside the ship, while you are travelling, the biological functions activities will slow down, but you woudn't notice it, you are just thinking slower, the ability of neurons to transmit electrochemical signals to other cells will slow down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradpitz Posted August 20, 2013 Author Share Posted August 20, 2013 Mr. Nato they say that astronauts are fraction of a second younger when they come back to earth from space and satellites from space need to adust the clock everytime so the satellites will function properly. How do we explain these? As far as I understood (Warning! Layman's response!), it's got nothing to do with the word "future", it would be just a biological slowing down (just like a clock, if it's travelling so fast, it will mechanically slow down). Let's suppose we have a technology that allows us to travel near the speed of light without frying up inside the ship, while you are travelling, the biological functions activities will slow down, but you woudn't notice it, you are just thinking slower, the ability of neurons to transmit electrochemical signals to other cells will slow down. Mr. Myuncle that means everyone inside the ship will become literally slow? The biological aging even the brain's response is delayed? It's very hard to imagine it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 It is hard to imagine that somehow velocity affects all biological, mechanical, atomic and nuclear processes to an identical degree. And there is no theoretical basis for such a conclusion. It is much simpler to consider that time is observer dependent as predicted by theory and confirmed by experiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delbert Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) Thanks @ajb . I find time machine is not really possible in nature but most physicists believe that time machine is possible through worm hole or rotating space. Worm holes and the like, why on earth would you need such things? As I understand time runs a tad faster in the space station (similar to GPS satellites) presumably every visiting astronaut has moved slightly backward it time compared to earthlings when he or she returns to Earth (I think I've got that the right way around! He experiences the Earth having aged less). Edited August 20, 2013 by Delbert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PureGenius Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 That the variable between the speed of light and say 10,000 mps is around a 5Xs reduced flow so to argue that it's only perceptual is not accurate time flow it's altered once the speed of light is reached. A muon decays at a rate in direct relation to its velocity, also building a time machine would not include a speed of light ship. I have worked out the math refer to my spaceship post it's accurate. Also Ajb I don't think any exotic matter is needed to create a time machine just a perfectly balanced number of variables controlled with precision. -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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