Jordan14 Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 How was it actually created - The Big Bang, colliding branes, God! I don't actually know what to think. Any thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5614 Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 do you mean what caused the big bang... ie. what caused an infinitely dense nothing to explode into the universe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 Id say some colliding branes hit God and he exploded in a big bang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimeTraveler Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 Is it true, that the general belief in physics is that all the matter in the universe was compacted to the size of a pinhead when the Big bang happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecoli Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 We'll never really know the true answer, that's why so many people endlessly debate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Tycho?] Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 "We dont know" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguy2 Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 We'll never really know the true answer, that's why so many people endlessly debate it. Were "people" debating the point in 11,834,221 BCE? If the debate had a beginning it could not be "endless". aguy2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Tycho?] Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 What. Of course it could. Endless, meaning something with no end. It isn't startless, or beginingless. It just can't end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kygron Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 '']What. Of course it could. Endless, meaning something with no end. It isn't startless, or beginingless. It just can't end. The Universe? Or the Debate about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguy2 Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 The Universe? Or the Debate about it? We had degressed to discussing whether the debate is endless. Tycho? may be right; I may have been expressing my prejudice that 'that which has a beginning must also have an end'. aguy2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ophiolite Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 I suppose Einstein would have said "That's relativity for you. The Universe is endless, whereas debates at Science Forums just seem endless." [Though sometimes they end seamless.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydoaPs Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 the big bang says nothing about the creation of the universe. neither does the brane theory's cyclic model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecoli Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Jeez, so much debate over one simple comment. I didn't even mean anything important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1veedo Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Yes, but some people do consider it important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuhrerkeebs Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 the big bang says nothing about the creation of the universe. Ha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bettina Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 What do you imagine was before OUR universe/OUR space/ OUR time began? Was it an empty void? The big nothing so to speak? I do mean down to the basic. No other universes either, A nothing. Thats what I imagine. Nothing. No heat, light, gravity, matter, gas, nothing...... Any thoughts? Bettina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguy2 Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 What do you imagine was before OUR universe/OUR space/ OUR time began?Was it an empty void? The big nothing so to speak? I do mean down to the basic. No other universes either' date=' A nothing. Thats what I imagine. Nothing. No heat, light, gravity, matter, gas, nothing...... Any thoughts? Bettina[/quote'] Personally I think we should make a distinction between 'the' universe and 'our' universe. I think there is a decent possibility that 'the' universe ocsillates from a situation akin to a black hole to a big bang type event, and then in a 'big crunch' returns to a black hole type situation. If this is the case I would say 'our' universe' is comprised of the events between the two black hole type situations. Some string/blane theorys postulate that 'the' universe could be comprised of unconnected parallel 'branes'. If this were the case I would say 'our' universe is one of these branes. aguy2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan14 Posted December 21, 2004 Author Share Posted December 21, 2004 I don't think we can describe what it was like before the Big Bang because whatever we say seems to be shaped, for example like a void - a void is still a shaped object that couldn't have existed before the big bang before there were no dimensions, we can't say nothing because nothing is an existance too. We can always speculate BUT we can never prove anything because the Big Bang destroyed all evidence of what was before. It was too hot. Any Ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 ... whatever we say seems to be shaped, for example like a void - a void is still a shaped object that couldn't have existed before the big bang before there were no dimensions,... I agree with Jordan's viewpoint that what we are talking about is the emergence of space itself. I recommend a look at this paper by Jan Ambjorn, Renate Loll, and Jurek Jurkiewicz. It came out April 2004. they do computer simulations of the origin of spacetime (from minimal initial conditions and "buildingblocks") Emergence of a 4D World from Causal Quantum Gravity http://arxiv.org/hep-th/0404156 a good theory of quantum gravity should explain why there are 3 space dimensions and provide a mechanism by which the universe could come into existence------and the particular mechanism should leave a trace or signature on our reality so we can TEST the theory: see whether the imprint is actually there, for instance in the Cosmic Microwave Background or the cosmic neutrino background (when detectors get good enough to map it) AFAIK no current theoretical approach to quantum gravity is adequate, or makes clear enough predictions so that it can be tested. So why do I suggest you look at this short paper "Emergence of a 4D world"? Because it shows what a solution is eventually going to have to look like. Their one computer graphic, small and unimpressive as it is, is the kind of thing a model should produce. they are asking the right questions and pushing in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 As several posters have already suggested, we may not have to leave the big bang unexplained. It may be able to understand how it happened. But probably there will always be some INITIAL CONDITIONS that are outside the range of scientific theory. One may be able to push the boundary back---there are good hopes and prospects of this--- and find something prior to, or more fundamental than, the conventional Bang. But probably there will be always something POSTULATED or presupposed that is outside the bounds of empirical science. I personally dont care about the beyond-stuff. I am only interested in going back as far as rational explanation reaches, and past that it seems a waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bettina Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 I personally dont care about the beyond-stuff. I am only interested ingoing back as far as rational explanation reaches, and past that it seems a waste of time. What happened after the big bang doesn't get my interest as much as the unexplained. Thats all I think about. That's why I try to imagine what was there before ANY big bang...not just before the big bang, but WAY before the bang. What was it like. Who is to say that nothing is something. Nothing could mean just that. Non existance of anything. "Nothing" would be infinite without end. Like the starfield screensaver without the stars that goes on and on and on. Could it be that our universe is nothing more than a quark that popped in and stayed? Please don't think of me as dumb, I just have a wandering mind. Bettina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan14 Posted December 21, 2004 Author Share Posted December 21, 2004 I think before the Big Bang is MUCH more interesting than after even though after is more important as before has no relevence on our universe now. And I wasn't trying to stay that Bettina was dumb and I hope it didn't come across that way. The key to understanding what was before the Big Bang is to think of a place (I know that's the wrong word to use but I don't know what else to call it) without any time I think to our minds that is unthinkable, well to me at least I don't what I place would look like with no time because it wouldn't be there to look at if you get my side. I like this discussion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1veedo Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 I think it seems logical to say that nothing came first. Honestly, wouldn't one assume such? If you think about it, our universe is probably stable with a net charge of 0 which would constitute nothing. So I personally don't see anything wrong with our universe popping out of a state of nothing. However, the idea of the universe-from-nothing isn't anything new to me, and in fact I have bloged about my own little through at my website: http://1veedo.com/index.php?1veedo=blog ------------ The idea of a big bang caused by a singularity in another universe is much more interesting. The space-path histories would converge to a point in universe A constituting a blackhole. The second these space-paths converge and intersect is when a big bang lights up in universe B with again, an intersection that relative to a us occurred in the past. In such an intersection, the spacetime paths always emerge from the intersection and gradually curve away from each other and would appear to constitute the beginning of spacetime. So at the center of every galaxy there is a seed for a new universe. This may answer why there are so many galaxies and not just a couple or even none in out universe. Just apply the standard principles of evolution and we've got ourselves a model that already has some theoretical evidence behind it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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