RawThinkTank Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 The most distant objects that we see are 13 billion light years back; It must have took them trillions of years to reach there from the center of the universe. That depends on their speed with refrence to the center of the universe. I see no problemo with this theory. how about U ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 Space itself is expanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadScientist Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 Allow me to expand on what Sayonara taught me. Prior to the big bang the universe and all the matter in the universe was held in a small amount of space, after the big bang space expanded and everything moved outwards with space... Try this for a rough analogy. Think of water held in a balloon, pump in a few impurities and keep pumping in water until the balloon explodes and the water flies everywhere, the impurities held in the water don't stay in the confines of the space that the balloon provided, they get carried out with the water all around the room, don't they?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 Did I? IANAP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadScientist Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 Did I? IANAP I meant in a post in here and not in any educational institution. We were talking about WMAP and someone, I'm pretty certain it was you, explained to me properly how the universe expanded.. I think my analogy was correct anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecoli Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 then how do explain the theory that the universe will eventually collapse into itslelf. Wouldn't it expanding forever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5614 Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 expansion is currently under way, depending on the mass of the universe it could either collapse on itself, continue expanding or reach a state at which it stops expanding and is at rest... this is all dependant upon the mass of the universe as that effects the force of gravity. surely knowing the direction plannets are moving in and so on, we could calculate the center of the universe, would that be of any significance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RawThinkTank Posted December 19, 2004 Author Share Posted December 19, 2004 So what is the speed of this so called expantion ? Does that have anything to do with age of the universe ? And what if I travell faster that than towards the edge of the universe ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 Is the universe expanding or is it growing? If its expanding then everything in the universe already exists is just getting farther apart. If its growing then new space-time is being made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5614 Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 So what is the speed of this so called expantion ?i dunno although a scientist with advance accurate measuring equipment could work it out and it may already be known, however as different things are moving at different speed it is hard to tell... its hard to tell our (earth's) true speed because there's nothing to compare our speed to, that is, the sun is moving, so we cant compare ourselves to that can we? Does that have anything to do with age of the universe ?if you knew the Earth's velocity and another plannet's then you'd know where there paths met and therefore when the center of the universe is, then from that you could work out travelling at our speed how long would it take to get from that center to where we are now. And what if I travell faster that than towards the edge of the universe ?you'd travel towards the edge of the universe and get closer to it! ============ Can we find out the velocity of the Earth??? i dont think so because to find out the velocity of an object you need to compare it to something else. as a train moves out a station, you look at the buildings which are stationary to see how fast you are moving... with plannets nothing is stationary as it is all travelling away from the center of the universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadScientist Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 So what is the speed of this so called expantion ? Does that have anything to do with age of the universe ? And what if I travell faster that than towards the edge of the universe ? The big bang unleashed a vast amount of electromagnetic energy and hydrogen, which formed a soup that held the EM energy inside. After gravity did its work the EM energy could escape and start to expand the universe. EM energy travels at the speed of light, so the universe has been expanding for 13.7 billion years at the speed of light. You could never reach the edge of the universe, unless you could outrun the speed of light and after 13 billion years of light speed it'll take some catching up. That's the way I understand things anyway, correct me if I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RawThinkTank Posted December 25, 2004 Author Share Posted December 25, 2004 ... the universe has been expanding for 13.7 billion years at the speed of light ... If that 13 billion figure is a result of observation by NASA then please comment on the fact that it musta taken trillions of years for those object at 13 billion light years to go there from center of the universe. Now imagine how far the first light musta reached Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadScientist Posted December 25, 2004 Share Posted December 25, 2004 If that 13 billion figure is a result of observation by NASA then please comment on the fact that it musta taken trillions of years for those object at 13 billion light years to go there from center of the universe. Now imagine how far the first light musta reached Those objects didn't travel for trillions of years because they didn't have to. Since all matter existed in the point sized universe it expanded outwards with the space but space was expanding faster than the matter could or can ever keep up with. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't matter is being dragged along by the expansion of space, imagine a car being blown along by the wind, that wind would need to be blowing damned hard to move the car and because of friction, aerodynamics and a few other things the car will never move as fast as the wind is. And the wind can't be destroyed, it's energy, so it has to go somewhere so it behaves like space but space has to create somewhere new for it to expand to. It didn't take trillions of years because of inflation theory but you're right that electromagnetic energy (it's not just light AFAIKnow) will have expanded much further outwards than any matter could have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecoli Posted December 26, 2004 Share Posted December 26, 2004 I was under the impression that space was endless, and matter was moving further through this space, hence the expanding universe. Which one sounds more accurate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguy2 Posted December 26, 2004 Share Posted December 26, 2004 So what is the speed of this so called expantion ? The best guess I've heard is that the current rate of expansion is about 7.2 billionths of one percent per year. aguy2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5614 Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 7.2 billionths of one percent per year. ^ % of what??? a % is a fraction of something else... are you saying it extends another 7.2 billionths of one percent of the 'old' universe per year? where did you get that figure from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguy2 Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 ^ % of what??? a % is a fraction of something else... are you saying it extends another 7.2 billionths of one percent of the 'old' universe per year? where did you get that figure from? http://nedwww.ipac.caltech.edu/level5/March03/Lineweaver/Lineweaver7_7.html http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=53309 If you find or compute a better guess, be my guest. Seriously, I don't really have the skills to double check this math, but if there is something better out there I would appreciate it. aguy2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ophiolite Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 Thought for the year: the Universe isn't getting larger, our imaginations are getting smaller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5614 Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 i think some would say that the universe is actually expanding at quite a rapid rate (relative to a man standing still) however now it has been doing that for AGES! and so relative to the size of the universe the expansion is not that great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
us.2u Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 We all believe in limits... but for us mere motals I believe, there are no limits! just infinity; line two mirrors together & the reflection is endless like our space... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RawThinkTank Posted January 2, 2005 Author Share Posted January 2, 2005 ... Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't matter is being dragged along by the expansion of space, imagine a car being blown along by the wind, that wind would need to be blowing damned hard to move the car and because of friction, aerodynamics and a few other things the car will never move as fast as the wind is. ..... So why cant we feel the drag of space like that of wind when we move through space ? Even though it can displace the entire universe, Vow so much energy ? Its quite possible that universe musta further expanded since we see the light of the thirteen billion year old object and to reach there it musta taken trillions of years. PS. why wont atoms expand along with the this so called space ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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