[Fight] Temporary Douglas & Atinymonkey thread

[Douglas]

ATinyMonkey

You don't know what those terms mean, much less when they are applicable. Don't use grown up language unless you understand context. If you can't provide counterpoints, don't sit and cry unfair, be a man about it.

If you accuse me of any of those things without grounds again, I'll request your posts are deleted.

Let's try again..........strawmaning and smoke screening, disingenuous blather. Your posts to Aardvark and me were a joke, let's add ...backtracking, dodging, motormouthing, caustic, crying, arrogance.........I could go on.

 

BTW, did you happen to notice that this is a political forum?

 

Now, if you wish, I'll take all of the above accusations, I'll look at your post's, identify each item, and jamb it down your throat....After that, you're allowed to cry to the administrators.

 

Oh, I'm an engineer, not an english major.

[Sayonara]

There will be no throat-jamming.

[atinymonkey]

Let's try again..........strawmaning and smoke screening, disingenuous blather. Your posts to Aardvark and me were a joke, let's add ...backtracking, dodging, motormouthing, caustic, crying, arrogance.........I could go on.

I See.

 

That's your retort, name calling? Not an apology for attacking the French? No counterpoints? No rebuttals?

 

Insults. Interesting.

 

BTW, did you happen to notice that this is a political forum?

Perhaps I ought to have pointed out the obvious to you to save your confusion, you are on a science forum by the way.

 

Now, if you wish, I'll take all of the above accusations, I'll look at your post's, identify each item, and jamb it down your throat....After that, you're allowed to cry to the administrators.

Well, I think it's got to the point where you will have to justify your insults. Do please compile a list. I need a laugh.

 

Oh, I'm an engineer, not an english major.

Well, thanks for clearing that up. I know that was a the crux of my argument over you insulting the French. Now I know your an engineer, it's all alright isn't it?

[blike]

There's a clear line between pointing out what you think are fallacies, lies, smoke-screening, etc, and blatantly insulting someone. Please don't cross that line

[Douglas]

There will be no throat-jamming.

Hmmm,....looks like the deck is stacked against me.

 

My original statement was why I thought the French disliked the Americans (not why the Americans disliked the French)....This was cleverly manipulated (with incisive sarcasm) to *me* bashing the French.

 

Seems like all of my so called "name calling" could easily be proved by reading his responses.

 

I'll add one more name to my list, In my opinion, he's a "fraud", deceiving by misrepresenting.

 

You may now delete this post, before he comes crying to you.

[Sayonara]

Hmmm,....looks like the deck is stacked against me.

You know, you aren't exactly helping.

[Ophiolite]

Working on the theory that humour can defuse a situation, allow me to recount a true story that has, perhaps some relevance. (Sayonara please delete if you think it makes matters worse.)

 

Some years ago I was discussing national pride with an Egyptian friend. "Who is the most arrogant nation?" I asked him.

"That's a tough one. The French are pretty bad, the American's can be obnoxious with it, the British act so superior."

"Granted. But if you had to make a choice.'

"Well, I don't wish to offend, but it has to be the British."

'Shall I tell you why you think that?"

"Please do."

"The Americans think they are the best in the world. The French think they are the best." My friend nodded. "In contrast we British know we are the best."

My friend leapt to his feet grinning, "yes, that is it exactly. It is a special kind of arrogance.'

I wonder when we are posting if most of us aren't thinking the same - "I know my post is the best, my logic impeccable, and that other chap is really a bit of an a***."

Well, we were sitting, as it happened, in the garden of the Mina House hotel at Giza. My Egyptian friend didn't say anything further. He just looked over my shoulder at the Great Pyramid and nodded. After all the Americans, British and French didn't build that.

[Sayonara]

I don't think it will make matters worse, I think they'll both ignore it.

 

Unless they read this then decide to be contrary and difficult.

 

(Ah haaa, now they both have a dilemma )

[atinymonkey]

Hmmm,....looks like the deck is stacked against me.

That should not confuse you, you are being very rude.

 

My original statement was why I thought the French disliked the Americans

 

No, your original statement was:-

talking about the French, has anyone googled "french military victories" then hit "I'm feeling lucky"??

Which is what I took objection to.

 

You followed that with the gem:-

I think DeGaulle was embarassed and embittered that the U.S. and Brits had to liberate his country after Hitler crushed them. He could never admit or come to terms that the great French empire was a piece of crap.

Then go on to cancel any doubts as to what your talking about:-

 

anti french sentiment is confined to the French in France

After which I'd struggle to see why you would claim your not having a pop at France.

 

(not why the Americans disliked the French)....This was cleverly manipulated (with incisive sarcasm) to *me* bashing the French.

Cleverly manipulated by pointing out what you said, in context, in this thread.

 

(Seems like all of my so called "name calling" could easily be proved by reading his responses.

The ones where I apologise for the incorrect facts? Seriously, where? If I'm missing some major flaw in my pesonality that's obvious to you, I'd rather like to know what it is.

 

I'll add one more name to my list, In my opinion, he's a "fraud", deceiving by misrepresenting.

Misrepresenting what? Can you give me a clue?

 

You may now delete this post, before he comes crying to you.

I warned you I would complain about slander, I didn't say nobody may disagree with me. I have heated discussion with most people on this forum, Blike and Sayonara³ included. Your not a special case here, just quit responding with insults. It's really that simple, keep it a civil discussion.If you want to point out errors, show some evidence.

 

If you are being genuine about not meaning to insult the French, why not just say "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend"? It would be simpler than this debacle.

[atinymonkey]

Working on the theory that humour can defuse a situation' date=' allow me to recount a true story that has, perhaps some relevance. (Sayonara please delete if you think it makes matters worse.)

[/quote']

How bad can it possibly get

 

I don't think it will make matters worse' date=' I think they'll both ignore it.

 

Unless they read this then decide to be contrary and difficult.

 

(Ah haaa, now they both have a dilemma )[/quote']

 

I'll kill you both!!!!!111122

 

No, seriously, I don't actually care about the discussion much at all. Thanks for worrying though

[Douglas]

That should not confuse you' date=' you are being very rude.

[i']Misrepresenting what[/i]? Can you give me a clue?

Your not a special case here, just quit responding with insults. It's really that simple

 

 

Lets see now, I noticed you said I was rude and insulting to you. I don't see it that way, I see it as *YOU* being very rude and insulting to me. However, I don't know if Blike's comment was directed to you, me or both. If I were guessing, I'd say *you*.

 

As for Misrepresentations and misquoting, I'll give you one.....there are others.

the Americans still generally label them cowards

Well, as you have said before, you do.

Never said that, you did.

 

The googling of "french victories" was meant as humor

 

Anyway, theres no point in going on, with Sayonara admonishing me about "throat jamming and not helping", and Blike possibly accusing me of insulting you,..... AND I'm not complaining, I'm sure they told it like they saw it. Then with you threatening to turn me in to the administrators for accusations that I believe to be true and you obviously don't.

 

With all that, it took the wind out of my sails and I figured I'd be shoveling sh*t against the tide.

[Sayonara]

Anyway, theres no point in going on, with Sayonara admonishing me about "throat jamming and not helping"

I did not admonish you for throat-jamming. That is a lie.

 

I did not admonish you for not helping. That is also a lie. It was quite plainly an observation.

 

 

I'm sure they told it like they saw it.

Indeed.

 

 

Then with you threatening to turn me in to the administrators for accusations that I believe to be true and you obviously don't.

Atinymonkey made no such threat. That is another lie.

 

 

There is an interesting dichotomy here between your moral outrage and your own behaviour.

[Douglas]

I did not admonish you for throat-jamming. That is a lie

 

I did not admonish you for not helping. That is also a lie. It was quite plainly an observation.

 

Atinymonkey made no such threat. That is another lie.

 

There is an interesting dichotomy here between your moral outrage and your own behaviour.

I agree, you did not admonish me for throat jamming, and I didn't say you did.

I said..."Sayonara admonishing me about "throat jamming "

You had said...."There will be no throat-jamming."

 

"Not helping" I agree, I shouldn't have put it as admonishing.

Your words were ...."You know, you aren't exactly helping."

I guess I'm not sure what that means.

 

I said....."Good try, well beyond strawmaning and smoke screening, disingenuous blather"

atinymonkey said....."If you accuse me of any of those things without grounds AGAIN, I'll request your posts are deleted."

 

I would have repeated them again, and he clearly thought I didn't have grounds, thus, I'd be turned in to the administrators.

 

"Moral outrage"

Guess I don't get that one. You must see something that I don't

[Sayonara]

I agree' date=' you did not admonish me for throat jamming, and I didn't say you did.

I said..."Sayonara admonishing me about "throat jamming "

You had said...."There will be no throat-jamming."

 

"Not helping" I agree, I shouldn't have put it as admonishing.

Your words were ...."You know, you aren't exactly helping."

I guess I'm not sure what that means.

 

I said....."Good try, well beyond strawmaning and smoke screening, disingenuous blather"

atinymonkey said....."If you accuse me of any of those things without grounds AGAIN, I'll request your posts are deleted."[/quote']

Swapping "for" with "about" makes no effing difference Douglas. The first instance was an impersonal statement about the future. The second instance was an observation of the current state of affairs.

There was no admonishing in either case. Get that through your skull and retract the statement instead of digging yourself further in like you did in the preceding slappy fight.

 

 

"I'll request your posts are deleted" is not the same as "I will turn you into the administrators". Get over it. You should have been here long enough by now to realise that moderators routinely remove bitch fights.

 

Regardless, you should never make such accusations about anyone if you are not capable of defending them. By defending them, I mean justifying them - not trying to scare people off challenging your accuations and diverting the discussion elsewhere.

 

I would have repeated them again, and he clearly thought I didn't have grounds, thus, I'd be turned in to the administrators.

A few comments on this:

1 - This implies that atinymonkey passes judgement on all before sending his victims to the admins for their unchecked and robotic meting out of justice. Grow up.

2 - Being "turned in to the administrators" is your invention. At no point did atm threaten you with this desperate fate that seems to fill you with dread.

3 - Repeating something you have been asked to back up instead of backing it up would be seen as provocation.

 

 

Guess I don't get that one. You must see something that I don't

I can see how one might lose track of the conversation quite quickly if putting so much effort into manipulating other people's words.

[Douglas]

Swapping "for" with "about" makes no effing difference Douglas.

[you] Swapping "for" with "about" makes no effing difference.

 

[me]It makes a damn big difference, even you, with your parallax view should see that.

*********************************************

 

[you] "I'll request your posts are deleted" is not the same as "I will turn you into the administrators".

 

[me] Oh!!, in this context, tell me what the difference is. Or is your paranoia affecting your comprehension?

************************************************

 

[you] Regardless, you should never make such accusations about anyone if you are not capable of defending them.

 

[me] I've already defended one, I suspect Blind rage is affecting your vision.

 

I'm not finished with you, I gotta head out for a while

 

Toodle loo Sayonara

[Sayonara]

It makes a damn big difference, even you, with your parallax view should see that.

No, it doesn't, for there was mightily and verifiably no admonishing of any kind.

 

 

Oh!!, in this context, tell me what the difference is. Or is your paranoia affecting your comprehension?

1) We have these things called Moderators,

2) Asking for a post to be removed is not the same as complaining about a person.

 

 

I've already defended one, I suspect Blind rage is affecting your vision.

Oh right. So in future we can expect your modus operandi to be this:

1) Post a string of accusations against another member,

2) Wait for response querying said accusations,

3) Defend only one accusation and fill time by making more.

 

That's called trolling.

 

 

"Blind rage"? I suppose you decided that based on your unique interpretational powers that allow you to derive extra information from characters on a page.

 

 

I'm not finished with you, I gotta head out for a while

You "aren't finished with me"?

 

You have been warned about your behaviour towards a fellow member twice already in this thread - by both administrators - and now you are going to continue with more of the same, but aimed at an administrator?

 

What the drak are you on?

[Sayonara]

Also, I can't help but notice that your responses were mostly precluded by the parts of post #83 that you chose not to quote.

 

Keep this up and you will be barred from the Politics section.

[Pangloss]

I'd personally appreciate it if you guys would work this out. I haven't read all the posts but it's clear that you've had a breakdown, and I think it's a shame. You both (Douglas and atinymonkey) have interesting things to say and shouldn't let a disagreement get in the way of a good discussion.

 

IMO atinymonkey has an unfortunate tendency to initiate hostilities through personal prodding that stops just short of crossing the line. I've seen this before, but now that I recognize it as just a character trait, I really think it's fine. He's a smart guy and has intelligent comments, he just has an in-your-face style that sets teeth on edge. Nothing really unusual about that, and I'm hardly perfect myself. Besides, we can all stand to have thicker skins. (Someone please remind me that I said this the next time he gets under my skin?)

 

Doug you need to learn that sometimes you can win without getting the last word, bro.

[Douglas]

Also' date=' I can't help but notice that your responses were mostly precluded by the parts of post #83 that you chose not to quote.

 

Keep this up and you will be barred from the Politics section.[/quote']

Also' date=' I can't help but notice that your responses were mostly precluded by the parts of post #83 that you chose not to quote.

 

Keep this up and you will be barred from the Politics section.[/quote']

I couldn't find post #83, I assumed it might be post 14 on this new thread, since the "gun" thread ended at #69, but post #14 didn't make sense. what # is it, I'll quote it.

 

Anyway, let me get back to my last thread and finish up, then you can consider whether I should be banned or not.

 

See ya' later.

[Sayonara]

Having separated these posts and read through it again, I can see how "There will be no throat-jamming" could be seen as admonishing, although it was not intended to be interpreted in that way.

 

 

I agree then that arguing on that is completely unnecessary.

 

[edit]

 

Ah yes, the 83ness. Sorry I ought to have gone back and changed that. Yes, it would be post #14 here.

 

Note that I did not say you would or should be banned.

[Douglas]

Doug you need to learn that sometimes you can win without getting the last word, bro.

Hi Pangloss: The problem is, I'll be accused of hitting below the belt, by not being able to defend my low blow, when indeed, I can defend it, and intend to defend at least one of my complaints.

 

I don't plan on getting the last word in, I just plan on defending one complaint.

[Sayonara]

I don't want to unnecessarily prolong this debacle, but I have to wonder what you are hoping to achieve.

 

You made comments that were - if not overtly, then at least indirectly - of a nature that targetted a particular people.

 

This offended someone and they called you out on it.

 

You then proceeded to make various accusations about the manner in which they wrote their post, rather than justifying what you had been called out on (and note well that justification and defence are not the same thing).

 

While I cannot rightly say that atinymonkey was not sarcastic and/or caustic (and in any case I would contend that this was provoked), it was you who escalated this to the point it is now at, the effects of which include the intervention of both site administrators.

Atinymonkey has already hit the nail on the head by asking If you are being genuine about not meaning to insult the French, why not just say "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend"?

 

It seems to me that that would be the most expedient way to end this, not to mention face-saving for all involved.

[5614]

yeah, ive just read this whole thread (how boring) and really agree with sayo, it isnt really going anywhere...

 

one made a comment and was offended... either start a debate about the point (proving that it was a genuine debateable point) or say sorry.... no point in having this pointless thead as its not going anywhere!

 

if you want to back up your original (the one which started this thread) statement then do so, atinymonkey will reply... thus making a debate.... or just accept that your offended someone and either just shut up about it or say sorry!

 

just trying to help out.

[Douglas]

I don't want to unnecessarily prolong this debacle' date=' but I have to wonder what you are hoping to achieve.

 

You made comments that were - if not overtly, then at least indirectly - of a nature that targetted a particular people.

 

This offended someone and they called you out on it.

 

You then proceeded to make various accusations about the manner in which they wrote their post, rather than justifying what you had been called out on (and note well that justification and defence are [u']not the same thing[/u]).

 

While I cannot rightly say that atinymonkey was not sarcastic and/or caustic (and in any case I would contend that this was provoked), it was you who escalated this to the point it is now at, the effects of which include the intervention of both site administrators.

Atinymonkey has already hit the nail on the head by asking If you are being genuine about not meaning to insult the French, why not just say "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend"?

 

It seems to me that that would be the most expedient way to end this, not to mention face-saving for all involved.

Ok, Ok, I'll justify my accusations, I will not apologize for calling the French cowards, since I didn't say it.

 

I'll get back to your comments some other time.

[Sayonara]

Ok' date=' Ok, I'll justify my accusations, I will not apologize for calling the French cowards, since I didn't say it.

 

I'll get back to your comments some other time.[/quote']

Righto, I will move this thread out of the public view shortly after I am sure you have seen this post.

It might be beneficial to include some sort of gesture that acknowledges the way in which your France comments were received, because it is fairly obvious that you weren't just putting random words together for a laugh.

 

It's not particularly important that you reply to my comments. It might not look like it but I am trying very hard to be the voice of reason here.

My only interest in the issue is in preventing the Krakatoa of all slander fests from gaining power. Since I spend a lot of time in France I'm not really interested in what random internet person #63412 thinks or doesn't think of them, so please don't take this intervention as being a value judgement re: your original comments on France.