Removing oil from the Gulf

[King, North TX]

Surely, you've heard about the off-shore oil rig explosion that is now leaking hundreds of thousands of barrels crude into the gulf a day.

 

At $75 a barrel, why isn't there a company out there outfitting a tanker right now to collect it? I'm envisioning a small skimmer, that then pumps the oil into the tanker...?

 

I mean no one 'owns' this oil anymore right?

 

Granted, it is spread out over an area as big as Delaware, in a layer only several millimeters thick, but it's free money just floating out there.

 

---

 

While this has been a news story for days, there been no real sense of urgency attached to it. The Drill Baby Drill folks have ben awful quiet, but we really haven't heard from the Oceanography folk yet.

 

What kind of devastation are we looking at ecologically speaking?

[insane_alien]

its not free money. you have to expend resources to go get it, and then you'd need to process it before you coulds sell it because it will have all sort of contaminants in it that it wouldn't have if it was straight out the well.

 

it just wouldn't be worth it. it'd be expensive to recover and you wouldn't be able to sell it anywhere near the usual prices.

[toastywombel]

I am sure you all have heard about it now, and if their is already a thread on this I am sorry I must have missed it. Well it seems in the last couple days the news has only gotten worse.

 

Here is what the three big cable outlets have to say.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/04/30/biggie-finally-happened-oil-spill-ingredients-ecological-disaster/

Most Americans think of Exxon Valdez when it comes to spills. But the potential and likelihood here "is well beyond that," said University of Rhode Island ocean engineering professor Malcolm Spaulding. Because the Deepwater Horizon well has not been capped and may flow for months more, it should be compared to a bigger more dangerous one from a well explosion in 1979, said Tunnell. That was Ixtoc 1, off the coast of Mexico. It was the worst peacetime oil spill on record.

 

What makes this spill relentless and most similar to Ixtoc 1 is that it's an active well that keeps flowing. The Exxon Valdez was a tanker with a limited supply of oil. The rig 40 miles from the Gulf Coast may leak for months before a relief well can be drilled to stop the flow, Kinner said.

 

I actually thought Fox had a good, informative front page "featured" article on the spill. CNN's front page article didn't focus on the spill instead the politics.

 

Washington (CNN) -- As the oil slick from the recent offshore oil rig disaster makes its way to Gulf Coast shores -- expected to devastate the precious ecosystem and hurt struggling businesses -- the seeds of political fallout for the Obama administration are beginning to sprout.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/04/30/obama.oil.fallout/index.html?hpt=C1

 

MSNBC had an interesting featured article on the spill and video.

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36870222/ns/us_news-environment/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/36880188#36880188

 

MOUTH OF THE MISSISSIPPI RIVER - British Petroleum downplayed the possibility of a catastrophic accident at an offshore rig that exploded, causing the worst U.S. spill in decades along the Gulf coast and endangering shoreline habitat, documents suggest.

 

Here is some more interesting links.

 

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/greenspace/2010/04/gulf-oil-spill-the-halliburton-connection.html

 

Investigators delving into the possible cause of the massive gulf oil spill are focusing on the role of Houston-based Halliburton Co., the giant energy services company, which was responsible for cementing the drill into place below the water. The company acknowledged Friday that it had completed the final cementing of the oil well and pipe just 20 hours before the blowout last week.

 

In a letter to to Halliburton Chief Executive David J. Lesar on Friday, Rep. Henry A. Waxman (D-Beverly Hills) chairman of the House Committee on Energy and Commerce, and Rep. Bart Stupak (D-Mich.), chairman of the Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations, called on Halliburton officials to provide all documents relating to "the possibility or risk of an explosion or blowout at the Deepwater Horizon rig and the status, adequacy, quality, monitoring, and inspection of the cementing work" by May 7.

 

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2011750068_noaaresponse01m.html

Methods for estimating the size of spills are still poor. The Coast Guard initially put the amount of oil gushing from the well at about 40,000 gallons a day, then upgraded it to more than 200,000 gallons.

 

If modelers don't know how much oil is in the water, it's hard to predict how the spill will behave and what its impacts will be, Leschine said. There's also a gap in understanding underwater oil spills.

 

"This spill is coming from nearly a mile below the surface," Leschine said. But modelers can't yet predict with much accuracy how plumes of oil move through the water column.

 

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/achenblog/2010/04/gulf_oil_spill.html?wprss=achenblog

Bad news: The tragic explosion of the BP oil drilling rig Deepwater Horizon could turn into an environmental disaster much bigger than anyone anticipated. Never mind the slick that's already reaching fragile marshes and estuaries that may soon be smothered in oil: This is a "spill" that keeps on spilling. The Mobile, Ala., newspaper says a leaked NOAA document shows the government is concerned that pipes at the bottom of the gulf could deteriorate further and the spill could turn into an unchecked gusher. Everyone today is sounding a lot more alarmed.

 

http://www.wtva.com/news/local/story/Barbour-not-optimistic-about-oil-spill/0ob5x-fUq0CpyxFaq-3z_Q.cspx

 

GULFPORT, Miss. (WTVA) -- Speaking to reporters at the Gulfport/Biloxi International Airport tonight, Governor Haley Barbour said everything that can be done is being done to stop the oil leakage along the Gulf coast.

 

The news conference comes after Barbour declared a State of Emergency for the Mississippi coast. He has ordered the Mississippi National Guard to aid local officials with emergency response.

 

He said, however, he "would not describe my state of mind as optimistic."

 

What do you guys think? This is looking like it may be a big, long-term, environmental/ political/ business/ health problem for the Gulf-Coast Region.

[King, North TX]

its not free money. you have to expend resources to go get it, and then you'd need to process it before you coulds sell it because it will have all sort of contaminants in it that it wouldn't have if it was straight out the well.

 

it just wouldn't be worth it. it'd be expensive to recover and you wouldn't be able to sell it anywhere near the usual prices.

 

I am sure you're right, and I am sure better engineers than me are at work trying to solve this problem. The skimmers at work now, seem ill-designed, ridiculously small, and literally like removing water from Lake Meade with a bucket.

 

While it wouldn't be as easy as turning on a spigot, put we are literally taking about picking stuff up off the top of the water... It wouldn't have to be 'filtered' from the water, as it 'floats' atop.

 

*Birds are were already being found in Texas yesterday covered with oil. The President has said publicly that BP will be held financially responsible, but Exxon is STILL arguing in court over the amount they owe for clean up efforts, the last time I checked.

[insane_alien]

While it wouldn't be as easy as turning on a spigot, put we are literally taking about picking stuff up off the top of the water... It wouldn't have to be 'filtered' from the water, as it 'floats' atop.

 

water and crude are not entirely immicible. there will be a significant fraction of water in the oil due to surfactant molecules present in crude. You also have to have a water separation process on all refinieries that take in crude oil and the water content is the primary cause of corrosion in crude oil piping. but that was not what I was reffering to.

 

What I was reffering to is that oceans are hardly pure water. There is a lot of crap(both figuratively AND literally) that would get mixed in with the oil and need to be removed.

 

This stuff will range from microrganisms that will digest and degrade the oil to larger animal and plant material. put simply, bubbling crude oil through an ocean doesn't do anything favourable to processing the crude into fuel.

 

I haven't even touched upon evapouration yet either. All the 'useful' fractions used in petroleum, diesel, kerosene, etc. are volatile. They'll evapourate leaving the heavier tars which need to be cracked. Heavy crudes typically aren't worth as much because they need more processing.

 

The fact remains that you need to spend a not insignificant amount of resources to get a poor quality oil. It will not be worth it.

[King, North TX]

 

...Heavy crudes typically aren't worth as much because they need more processing.

 

The fact remains that you need to spend a not insignificant amount of resources to get a poor quality oil. It will not be worth it.

 

Thank you for the insights. I knew I could expect good stuff, here.

 

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I've heard they are 'skimming' and 'mopping' the oil off the surface.

 

Do you know how much they'll possibly re-capture?

[truedeity]

I have a solution to clean up the oil spill. Many news sources are claiming that we don’t know how to clean up the oil. But I know how. The method is very simple. However, will take a lot of cooperation from people in the current administration to help speed up the process… Here is the proposed method(s): You would fill up a pillow case full of hair. Animal Hair, and or Human hair, donated from haircuts from salons for example. The pillow cases would be dropped over the oil spill and immediately start absorbing the oil. However, it would take a lot of pillow’s full of hair for it to be effective considering the quantity of oil filling up the gulf. If everyone takes part in this we can solve the crisis. I believe we need to take this solution seriously as it is a viable solution.

[toastywombel]

Surely, you've heard about the off-shore oil rig explosion that is now leaking hundreds of thousands of barrels crude into the gulf a day.

 

At $75 a barrel, why isn't there a company out there outfitting a tanker right now to collect it? I'm envisioning a small skimmer, that then pumps the oil into the tanker...?

 

I mean no one 'owns' this oil anymore right?

 

Granted, it is spread out over an area as big as Delaware, in a layer only several millimeters thick, but it's free money just floating out there.

 

---

 

While this has been a news story for days, there been no real sense of urgency attached to it. The Drill Baby Drill folks have ben awful quiet, but we really haven't heard from the Oceanography folk yet.

 

What kind of devastation are we looking at ecologically speaking?

 

I posted a thread on the same topic in Science News, maybe the two should be merged?

 

http://www.scienceforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=51564

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Done. See post #3 in this thread.

[King, North TX]

I have a solution to clean up the oil spill. Many news sources are claiming that we don’t know how to clean up the oil. But I know how. The method is very simple. However, will take a lot of cooperation from people in the current administration to help speed up the process… Here is the proposed method(s): You would fill up a pillow case full of hair. Animal Hair, and or Human hair, donated from haircuts from salons for example. The pillow cases would be dropped over the oil spill and immediately start absorbing the oil. However, it would take a lot of pillow’s full of hair for it to be effective considering the quantity of oil filling up the gulf. If everyone takes part in this we can solve the crisis. I believe we need to take this solution seriously as it is a viable solution.

 

A cosmetology student recommended this, as we were talking about this just yesterday. He said, that 'hair' is one of the most oil absorbent substances you can find.

 

I passed your comment along to the White House, along with a link to this thread.

 

*Who knows, maybe someone might be paying attention.

[Mr Skeptic]

Hair is probably too expensive, and far more so if it is intended for the initial cleanup.

[King, North TX]

Hair is probably too expensive, and far more so if it is intended for the initial cleanup.

 

If it were 'donated' from the nation's barber shops, I think cost could be contained.

 

The techniques being used look poorly designed and implemented.

 

AND they believe that they won't be able to shut off the pouring for 60-90 days!

 

It seems like they could capture most of it by placing a large up-side-down bowl over the leak, 5,000 feet down, then pump it into a tanker...

 

I am really just spitballing here.

 

What I'm really surprised with is the lack of working contingencies to deal with this issue.

 

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QUESTION:

 

Should this event bankrupt BP?

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

It seems like they could capture most of it by placing a large up-side-down bowl over the leak, 5,000 feet down, then pump it into a tanker...

 

That is, in fact, what they're trying to do right now. They're fabricating steel boxes with pipes attached that they can sit on top of the leaks. It'll take a few days for the boxes to be ready and in place.

[ecoli]

 

QUESTION:

 

Should this event bankrupt BP?

Should it or will it

 

The answer is probably not, either way.

[King, North TX]

That is, in fact, what they're trying to do right now. They're fabricating steel boxes with pipes attached that they can sit on top of the leaks. It'll take a few days for the boxes to be ready and in place.

 

Where did you find or see that?

 

LINK: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36912754/ns/us_news-environment/?GT1=43001#36913565

 

---

Merged post follows:

Consecutive posts merged

Should it or will it

 

The answer is probably not, either way.

 

As I noted above Exxon is still fighting in the appeals process about how much they'll pay, "last I heard"...

 

It's not just the clean-up, but what about the collateral damage to the fishing and tourist industries. Would they prevail in a law suite against BP?

 

*Do you think BP is insured 'enough' for this kind of accident?

Edited May 3, 2010 by King, North TX
Consecutive posts merged.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Where did you find or see that?

 

LINK: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36912754/ns/us_news-environment/?GT1=43001#36913565

 

BP admits that none of its strategies to stem the release of oil has been tried before at this depth, but its most senior US official said yesterday that steel boxes could be in place over the leaks within six days.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/natural_resources/article7114851.ece

[King, North TX]

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/natural_resources/article7114851.ece

 

What, are they having Chip Foose build them?

 

Retro-fit something together NOW, have another team with a more stable replacement to go on in a month.

 

"Hundreds of thousands of gallons a day"...it's releasing?

[toastywombel]

What, are they having Chip Foose build them?

 

Retro-fit something together NOW, have another team with a more stable replacement to go on in a month.

 

"Hundreds of thousands of gallons a day"...it's releasing?

 

I think the number was around 200,000 gallons of oil a day.

How much the disaster costs depends on how much worse the spill becomes, and how much fault is ultimately assigned to BP for the oil-rig explosion and fire that caused the spill. The oil company leased the offshore platform from Transocean Ltd. and hired subcontractors, including Halliburton Co., to help drill the well that is now spewing an estimated 200,000 gallons a day.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/03/AR2010050303823.html

[Genecks]

So, what caused the incident? a pipe burst?

[toastywombel]

So, what caused the incident? a pipe burst?

 

Maybe, a pipe burst, but the leak started after an oil rig exploded on April 20th. The leaking oil was not discovered until a couple days later.

 

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jkw96R1Vg_Yf4D-3YIWCo7M__6vgD9FHEBUG8

[King, North TX]

So, what caused the incident? a pipe burst?

 

An air bubble...so says my father-in-law.

 

The closer the air bubble gets to the surface the larger it gets, as the pressure is lessened, and by the time it got to the blow out valve, it was too much for the unit to withstand.

 

An oil rig engineer, said on CNN that the only way this could have occurred is if the entire crew "turned its back on the well". He noted that every inch of the well itself is under close watch by gages, that all feed directly to a control room. They 'should' have seen the blowout coming.

 

Another 'expert' said that the blowout mechanism hadn't been fully or properly set in place.

 

I think we need to wait for the investigation results.

[truedeity]

they are gonna say it was terrorism

[insane_alien]

i doubt it. it's not the first time an oil rig has blown up and accidents are all to common on them(just as with anything involving humans).

 

a good example to compare this to(until the proper reports start coming out, which i'll read and analyse if anyone else is still interested by then) is piper alpha. clearly not terrorism just an accident. a couple of simple common mistakes were made at the wrong places and times by a number of people. i wouldn't be surprised if this was a similar story.

[King, North TX]

First containment box failed due to the formation of ice crystals and buoyancy.

 

A "top hat" with a warming system will be put into place soon.

[wanabe]

I was watching a recent "60 minutes" interview with a guy who survived the oil platform explosion...There was an explanation of what happened... Basically near the drill head there are rubber thing(this part starts around 5:30 min into the video)...

 

Yea watch the video...

http://news.spreadit.org/60-minutes-oil-spill/

 

You can decide for your self the true cause...

 

According to the video the rig was costing Bp a billion a day(just to do its normal job), so they should spend at least that much, imo, to help fix this mess.

 

grammar/ adding details

Edited May 21, 2010 by wanabe
grammar/ adding details