Forgetting Abuse

[Sisyphus]

Whether there is "implied consent" in a marriage or other established relationship depends on the couple. My live-in girlfriend and I certainly engage in unprompted behaviors towards one another that would be wildly inappropriate on a third date. That doesn't mean you have a "right" to do whatever you want with your partner against their will, it just means that an expanding set of behaviors are "opt out" rather than "opt in." And yeah, that can include sleep, since anything like that will wake you up pretty quick and give a clear "opt out" opportunity. YMMV.

[Phi for All]

That's how I looked at it. If I was too tired and declined and she demanded as her right that I perform, then it would have been an entirely different matter.

[Mr Skeptic]

It seems that amnesiacs can be sad about something even if they don't remember what it was -- and are sad for longer than normal people (for short-term sadness invoked by movies).

 

it-pays-to-remember-what-made-you-sad.html

[padren]

Regarding the OP: What is the threshold of time that could make it a difference? If he remembers being hit for one second, one minute, one hour, or one lifetime? We may view a few seconds as inconsequential but all this individual has is a whole lot of few second moments. There is also no evidence that our memories are any less impermanent, it just takes us longer to forget when we die. We would be contrasting the short-term effect on him to the long term effect on us, and equating his as meaning nothing. Considering a few seconds means something to even those of us who have normal memory coupled with the fact these are all that guy has I think it works out to being equally immoral, with the taint of taking advantage of someone's disability added on as extra.

 

With regards to the coma patient we still feel that person is an individual and in the case of total brain death we still regard an artificially supported living body as worthy of some dignity. Whatever our reasons for this regard for dignity (perhaps even selfish, for how we'd want to be treated) we do regard it, and to disregard it would be amoral if you consider yourself in any way part of our society.

 

 

Now, with "wake up sex" that's come up in the past and to put it as dryly as possible, the optional boundaries were proposed to me and my input was requested on if I'd like to opt in. To me such a discussion marks "consent on record" and by no means implies it would at all times be welcome but it is reasonable and a valid form of sexual expression.

 

 

So, what if your coma patient wife had expressed serious interest in having sex if she should fall into a coma, or explicitly wrote it into her living will that should you be willing to she would like to have coma sex?

 

 

 

 

Ah, coma-sex... how I've missed the philosophy section on SFN.

[Severian]

With regards to the coma patient we still feel that person is an individual and in the case of total brain death we still regard an artificially supported living body as worthy of some dignity. Whatever our reasons for this regard for dignity (perhaps even selfish, for how we'd want to be treated) we do regard it, and to disregard it would be amoral if you consider yourself in any way part of our society.

 

I am curious. Why would you, personally, object to being sexually 'molested' while in a coma? If you had no recollection of it and no physical consequences afterwards, you don't lose anything but the 'molester' gains pleasure. From a humanist perspective, isn't that a desirable outcome?

[padren]

I am curious. Why would you, personally, object to being sexually 'molested' while in a coma? If you had no recollection of it and no physical consequences afterwards, you don't lose anything but the 'molester' gains pleasure. From a humanist perspective, isn't that a desirable outcome?

 

The survival need to avoid becoming prey is so strong it instinctively creates a very strong emotional response, on par or in excess of any physical pain. We have especially strong instincts regarding states of vulnerability, since the earliest human groups apparently gathered for common defense, and had to deal with opportunistic members that would take advantage of these states. This carries over into how we want to be treated in states such as a coma, and even our burial wishes.

 

If the individual "molesting me" was an intimate partner I had previously given permission to do just that, it wouldn't bother me at all. To be preyed on and give a predator pleasure is not something I would ever want to be part of.

 

 

I'm not sure about the humanist comment, but personally I find rationality is somewhat overrated. It's exceptionally useful (and necessary) in discussing topics like ethics, but at the end of the day it's what I feel overall (regardless of whether I can explain it) that determines what I find personally ethical. Through reason I can share ideas and discuss topics and possibly impact how I feel, but it's not like I'd ignore a feeling that something is "wrong" because I can't come up with a rational reason why I feel that way.