infinitesolid2 Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 (edited) Imagine going beyond the stars in to deep space, travel a large distance, theres nothing stopping you traveling further forever, that's infinite space. If there is an end, lets call it a wall. How thick is this wall and what's on the other side? More space! Gafferuk, Bristol. Edited August 15, 2009 by infinitesolid2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNow Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 If there is an end, lets call it a wall. How thick is this wall and what's on the other side?More space! If there is an "end," then by definition there is no "other side." If there is an "other side," then by definition there is no "end." Your statement is logically inconsistent, has really nothing whatsoever to do with Physics, and doesn't appear to be asking any real questions of the membership here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitesolid2 Posted August 15, 2009 Author Share Posted August 15, 2009 (edited) ummmm. ok mate. Im talking physics. What is physical. The universe has no end. I'ts INFINITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!... Gafferuk, Bristol. Edited August 15, 2009 by infinitesolid2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNow Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 Can someone take this out of Physics and put it into P&S or GD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitesolid2 Posted August 15, 2009 Author Share Posted August 15, 2009 iNOW (i now not what to think!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padren Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 Imagine going beyond the stars in to deep space, travel a large distance, theres nothing stopping you traveling further forever, that's infinite space.If there is an end, lets call it a wall. How thick is this wall and what's on the other side? More space! Gafferuk, Bristol. Why more space, and why a wall? What does this 'imaginary journey' actually try to say? It sounds like you are trying to say the universe must be infinite because you can't conceive of going any distance and having anything other than more space in ahead of you. That could be the case, but I believe there are experiments trying to determine exactly that, having to do with measuring the curvature of space or something to that effect. If space curves enough, it could wrap, and going in any of the 6 directions (up/down/left/right/forward/back) far enough would bring you back where you started, just like the Earth curves and going in any 4 directions (forward/back/left/right) will bring you back to where you started. But your post doesn't really say anything about it that is useful - consider your statement if it was made 1000 years ago about the known explorable universe, ie: Earth. Imagine going beyond the shore in to distant sea, travel a large distance, theres nothing stopping you traveling further forever, that's infinite sea.If there is an end, lets call it an island. How thick is this island and what's on the other side? More sea! See, simply being able to communicate a concept doesn't convey any credibility as to whether it's sound or not. Using your own words with only a change of topic, we can make an argument that we know to be false becase there isn't infinite sea on Earth. That's why when we share concepts around here, we don't just express them to be read and (hopefully) accepted by others - there are far too many concepts to have the time to do that. We share concepts and the facts that support them, theorize on how to use those concepts to make predictions that are testable - essentially discuss things in a scientific manner. You really need to do more background work and build up your concepts for us to even be able to discuss them effectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitesolid2 Posted August 15, 2009 Author Share Posted August 15, 2009 (edited) I called it a wall bcause anything stoping you going further must have a thickness even if it's just one atom. As for space, what else can come after solid? could be gas though. Merged post follows: Consecutive posts mergedSpace is space, it cannot curve. Light might though. Merged post follows: Consecutive posts mergedMy idea is quite simple, everything has another side, so the universe is infinite. Take all gas/solid away and you would be left with infinite space. Type "infinite space" in to a web search engine, it's all irrelevant. Edited August 15, 2009 by infinitesolid2 Consecutive posts merged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timo Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 (edited) Imagine going beyond the stars in to deep space, travel a large distance, theres nothing stopping you traveling further forever, that's infinite space. When I start walking east on earth there is, mountains and oceans apart, nothing that stops me traveling further forever. We would probably agree that earth is not infinitely large, though. An interesting observation: I'd think the only reason why you think this cannot be the case for the universe is that on earth your are used to think of it as a sphere from the beginning while for the universe you are not. It somehow makes the people who denied that earth could be spherical seem less confused in retrospective; they even had additional arguments against it (you'd fall down on the lower side). Edited August 15, 2009 by timo idiotic<->confused; it's both not the word I'm looking for but at least not potentially offensive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaynos Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 Moved to P&S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajb Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 Space is space, it cannot curve. A space can have local curvature, i.e. geometry and/or global shape i.e. topology. Your question of infinite is a question of topology. A space that is "finite" is called compact. Roughly, by infinite one means an "infinite direction". Loosely that would mean a non-compact space. Your "walls" remind me of manifolds with a boundary, which may or may not be compact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBruce Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 If space is expanding, then can space actually be infinitely large? Because to be infinitely large means something is without bound. How does something that is without bounds become bigger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooeypoo Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Well in that case let's say space isn't expanding but the distances between all the objects in space is increasing. Your statement is logically consistent, has really everything whatsoever to do with Physics, and appears to be asking every real question of the membership here. Can someone take this out of P&S and put this into physics? Last I checked space being infinite is not a speculation. Not until the OP comes back with her own question, as opposed to what we guess she might've been trying to ask. ~moo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajb Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 If space is expanding, then can space actually be infinitely large? Because to be infinitely large means something is without bound. How does something that is without bounds become bigger? By expanding, one is normally thinking about the local geometry. So, there is no contradiction with non-compact spaces expanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padren Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I called it a wall bcause anything stoping you going further must have a thickness even if it's just one atom. My idea is quite simple, everything has another side, so the universe is infinite. So your idea is that everything has another side: ergo, the universe is infinite. That's not exactly a lot of foundation, the premise isn't well founded scientifically that I am aware of. Sometimes things wrap and end where they begin. As Ajb said it's a question of topology. It is possible for space to be finite, and what is 'on the other side' is simply described as 'what was already behind you a ways.' Now, I am not saying that means the universe is finite, or that your conclusion is wrong, just that the premise you use to support and draw your conclusion is flawed. If your premise is flawed though, all you have left is a conclusion that is 'an idea' and it becomes no more rigorous than the idea the Earth sits on the back of a multi-dimensional elephant with turtles all the way down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitesolid2 Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 If you go in a line, and not follow this so called "Bend" in space, would it be infinite? when you do reach a so called "End", would there be another side? Yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padren Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 If you go in a line, and not follow this so called "Bend" in space, would it be infinite? when you do reach a so called "End", would there be another side? Yes! I don't think you understand what is described. The 'bend' I am referring to does not exist as 3D space, because it's 3D space itself that is curved. You can't just tune your 'compass' for a few degrees to compensate and expect you'll be going in the 'real' straight direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane_alien Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 so you saying if we just completely ignore reality and leave space behind as per your obviously over-simplistic view of topology and space-time then we'll encounter something with another side. i'm sorry but you really should read up on your science as you're making elementary mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitesolid2 Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 In this case im preposing "The theory is the fact". Where ever you look at the universe from, your still inside the universe space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane_alien Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 theories are not the same as facts. a fact is an observation, a theory isa proposition about how the phenomenon of the observations works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphus Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 You can walk in a straight line as long as you want and never reach the edge of the Earth, and yet the Earth has a finite surface area. This is because the surface bends back to meet itself. A 3D space can do the same thing, creating a finite volume with no edges. It's just not really something you can visualize from an "outside" perspective. You can from the inside, though: squint through the telescope far enough, and you'll see the back of your head. Another example is lots of computer games (though these are usually 2D too: go off the "edge" of one side of the map, show up on the other side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitesolid2 Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 but if you compensate for this so called bend in space(if we knew it) , can we not travel forever foreward? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane_alien Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 no, because to do that you would need to leave space-time and that is impossible. if we think of the surface of the earth as space-time and you are an ant on the surface with noway to leave the surface then how can you compensate for the curvature of the earth? although in the ants case it is a technological problem. but in what you propose it is a reality problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitesolid2 Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 Im talking about Space, not Earth. Try drawing you theory on paper, follow you path, it's a circle right? has it not also an outside? You don't have to read the next line if you don't want to, it's a little strange. ?ecaps hguorht gnillaf ew erA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane_alien Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 i know, we are using the earth as an analogy to explain to you why it won't work. you do understand what an analogy is don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBruce Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Im talking about Space, not Earth. Yes everyone here knows that, people are simply providing you with analogies and metaphors in order to help you comprehend the curvature of space time. Also using Einstein's General Theory of Relativity it is possible to calculate the curvature of space; it was actually how the theory was proven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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