a Dopamine Hit?

[YT2095]

After being a smoker for some 30 years and quitting a 40 a day habit for a month+, I had a Bad day a week or so ago and lit up my old Pipe,

I could never really get my head around smoking a pipe even after several attempts whilst I was a Cigarette smoker, it never seemed to "Deliver", there was no distinct Nicotine hit that you get with a cig.

This time it Did "deliver" and I got the desired effect, and as a result have taken up pipe smoking now for a good week+ and enjoy it somewhat more than I did cigs.

 

this got me thinking about Dopamine and reward pathways and reinforcement(s) of such, and I wondered Why hasn`t some Corporate Chemist decided to cut-to-the-chase, and just made a "Dopamine Hit" drug, or just injected Dopamine directly?

 

it seems the Logical choice for the Ultimate "Drug", I doubt my Logic is flawed, so what`s the Real reason this hasn`t been done before? (or has it?).

 

edited to add: while we`re on the subject of Brain chemistry and "Feel good" factors, how come the same thing hasn`t been done for the Orgasm effect too?

[iNow]

Freud did this when he was practicing. It's called cocaine.

 

Although, I suppose any amphetamine, even ritalin, would help in that regard. The real challenge here is not so much "accomplishing the same effect," but taking a measured approach to deal with the addictive nature of these "treatements."

 

 

As for your orgasm pill idea, I can easily see myself abusing that one. I'd never leave the house.

[DrDNA]

There are several drugs that are dopamine agonists.....they are used to treat, for example, Parkinsonism and also restless leg syndrome.

[Glider]

After being a smoker for some 30 years and quitting a 40 a day habit for a month+, I had a Bad day a week or so ago and lit up my old Pipe,

I could never really get my head around smoking a pipe even after several attempts whilst I was a Cigarette smoker, it never seemed to "Deliver", there was no distinct Nicotine hit that you get with a cig.

This time it Did "deliver" and I got the desired effect, and as a result have taken up pipe smoking now for a good week+ and enjoy it somewhat more than I did cigs.

It gave you a hit now probably because your nicotinic ACh receptors have had a chance to re-set. Whilst you were a smoker, constant levels of nicotine had many of these blocked and so your body had generated more to compensate. When you quite (well done), a large part of the reason for the physical withdrawal is the increased numbers of N-ACh receptors which made these synapses overly excitable. Over about a month, these synapses re-set and the numbers of N-ACh receptors drop back to pre-smoking levels. Now, when you introduce nicotine into your body, you'll get a larger hit again.

 

this got me thinking about Dopamine and reward pathways and reinforcement(s) of such, and I wondered Why hasn`t some Corporate Chemist decided to cut-to-the-chase, and just made a "Dopamine Hit" drug, or just injected Dopamine directly?

Dopamine injected directly can't cross the blood-brain barrier. People with Parkinson's are given dopamine precursors (e.g. Levadopa) so that the remaining cells in the substantia nigra can produce more dopamine.

 

it seems the Logical choice for the Ultimate "Drug", I doubt my Logic is flawed, so what`s the Real reason this hasn`t been done before? (or has it?).

I think it pretty much has.

 

All 'drugs of abuse' share the common effect of elevating DA levels in the reward pathways. They have a variety of other effects and differ in the way they achieve the common effect (e.g. some inhibit GABA systems, which are inhibitory, so they 'inhibit the inhibitor', others through direct stimulation). Anything (including behaviours) that elevates DA in the reward system is rewarding (in the psychobiological sense) and so potentially addictive , so my question is 'Why would you want to?'

 

The hit given by a drug, and thus its 'addictiveness' is due less to the level of dopamine elevation and more to the speed it elevates DA levels. The faster you can get DA to spike in the reward system, the more of a rush it provides and the more addictive it is. There are already plenty of drugs that do this (e.g. drugs like crack cocaine elevate DA levels very quickly), so in effect, it has already been done. I certainly don't see any reason to try to 'improve' on crack cocaine.

 

edited to add: while we`re on the subject of Brain chemistry and "Feel good" factors, how come the same thing hasn`t been done for the Orgasm effect too?

There are a number of substances people take to enhance the effects of orgasm.

[coke]

Dopamine injected into the bloodstream does not pass the blood-brain-barrier, neither can adrenaline, endorphin, serotonin (I'm not a big fan of serotonin).

 

No doubt tobacco (and not just nicotine,for example there are some alkalods that inhibit MAO, like harman) increases dopamine. You know one of the meds for quitting smoking, bupropion (zyban, wellbutrin)? That's basically a weaker ritalin.

 

I smoke cigarettes ocasionally (no more than 2 a day) but i take very deep puffs so afterwards i almost feel like falling down... not hungry but cup of coffee feels good... by the time that fainting feeling ends, i feel pretty sharp for about 2 hours. What else I like about nicotine is that its a potent agonist of acetylcholine at the brain, which speeds up your brain processes. Potent neurotoxin at higher doses.

Edited April 1, 2009 by coke

[iNow]

No doubt tobacco (and not just nicotine,for example there are some alkalods that inhibit MAO, like harman) increases dopamine. You know one of the meds for quitting smoking, bupropion (zyban, wellbutrin)? That's basically a weaker ritalin.

Actually, that's not really true. Zyban/Wellbutrin are SSRIs (selective seratonin reuptake inhibitors), whereas Ritalin is norepinephrine, which is a dopamine reuptake inhibitor. While they both inhibit reuptake, one relates to seratonin and the other to dopamine. Important difference.

[coke]

Actually, that's not really true. Zyban/Wellbutrin are SSRIs (selective seratonin reuptake inhibitors), whereas Ritalin is norepinephrine, which is a dopamine reuptake inhibitor. While they both inhibit reuptake, one relates to seratonin and the other to dopamine. Important difference.

 

No!

 

Bupropion (Zyban, Wellbutrin) is one of the few antidepressants that is not an SSRI! It's an NDRI (norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor) like Ritalin, although weaker.

 

"is an atypical antidepressant that acts as a norepinephrine and dopamine reuptake inhibitor, and nicotinic antagonist"

 

Negligeble action on serotonin. Significant action on NE and DA...

 

I don't know if you trust wikipedia but here...

 

In fact here's some data on its pharmacology...its metabolites are also active and have similar profiles (scroll down in the wikipedia link i gave)

 

Bupropion Inhibition potency (potency of DA uptake inhibition by bupropion = 100%)

DA uptake 100%

NE uptake 27%

Ser uptake 2%

α3β4 nicotinic 53%

α4β2 nicotinic 8%

α1* nicotinic 12%

Edited April 2, 2009 by coke
Consecutive posts merged.

[iNow]

Well, I'll be damned. Thanks for the correction. I've been wrong about that one for over a decade, and I'm glad to have been set straight. Sorry for my mistaken post above, as I was quite wrong.

[coke]

yeah, lol, its really the only common NDRI antidepressant... easy mistake to make

if it was a bit stronger i'm sure it would be grouped with the stimulants- has the typical phenethylamine structure (this one's a ketone like cathinone)

 

and of course the reason they're mostly all phenethylamines is that dopamine and adrenaline are phenethylamines

 

almost shot my head off after reading that post though

 

they should inject dopamine and endorphins right into brain, the pleasure center of the brain - that would be the thing

Edited April 2, 2009 by coke