Zeo Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 I have often thought to myself about a lot of perplexing things. They don't blow my mind, they just astound me...I have always wondered, how exactly we are able to think...to conspire...to have certain views and opinions on things. Have humans evolved to much that our mind has developed consciousness? Are we sentient beings? Or are the random thoughts traveling seemlessly through our minds just simple things that we have heard before and just happen to present themselves from our memory...But then, where did we hear these things? I can find several ways to contradict my theories on the human mind right now. Even now, as I type this proposal, I think about what to type next, and how to type it, and wondering how I can effectively write this, and what I'll have for lunch:D . All these things are just running through my mind, with no particular significance at all. But why is it possible? Let's just 'think' for a moment:-p . Dinosaurs were the rulers of this Earth for millions of years or so it seems. Humans have been rulers of this Earth for about 2 million years. After all that time the Dinosaurs had, how come their genetic structure is primitive and inferior to even the smallest of organisms on this planet? Ok, maybe I'm going overboard on that. But still. They were here for millenia of millenia. You would think that they would learn how to think...If that is what we do. In my mind I hear my thoughts. In fact, that's all I hear. It is not possible to clear your mind of all thoughts, as we are always thinking. But how? How, in less than 2 million years have we evolved to the point that we can walk, talk, and dress ourselves? We have developed hundreds of languages...we have developed complex memory, for heaven's sake, we study other animals. We cut them opoen and peer inside. dinosaurs didn't do that. no. Dinosaurs did nothing but eat and waste. But humans? No....humans would do no such thing. We even cut ourselves open and peer inside. When you think about it, Humans have evolved at a remarkable rate. We've developed complex emotion. Hate, compassion, love, only a few of these complexities that we call emotions. I guess that we feel emotions from certain hormones in our bodies. But what triggers these hormones? Pheramones? Maybe...Maybe that is all that makes us think. Hormones. That is basically what we base humanb life on. Everything we do is based on an emotion which originated from Hormones. But still, How do we pull off such complexities? We've already sent several artificial satellites into the sky. We have already developed vaccines, and cures, and a whole lot of other technologies. Maybe god just gave us a major jumpstart. He made us the perfect machine if he did... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aman Posted October 19, 2002 Share Posted October 19, 2002 Sentience may be engineered into evolution. At a time when food is not the major problem and time is available for observation rather than sleeping, protection and comfort would be pressures to evolve into sentience. Everything that happened in our past seems to make sense toward evolving us. Cold blooded animals had some of the pressures to evolve but not the mechanisms. Apes had the pressures and the mechanisms. It's a fascinating concept. Just aman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grazzhoppa Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 Dinosaurs were the rulers of this Earth for millions of years or so it seems. Humans have been rulers of this Earth for about 2 million years. After all that time the Dinosaurs had, how come their genetic structure is primitive and inferior to even the smallest of organisms on this planet? Ok, maybe I'm going overboard on that. But still. They were here for millenia of millenia. You would think that they would learn how to think...If that is what we do. If your talking about evolution in the sense of natural selection, then dinosaurs had no reason to evolve an expanded brain or a thinking conscientiousness. Dinos were huge beings, with self-protective mechanisms such as spikes and hard scaley skin. If you look at humans, what kind of defense do we have? None! So through natural selection, the early humans developed an expanded brain because that was their defense. We developed languages because we had the capacity to! You get into human nature, why do we strive to do things easier and better? Because at that beginning of our evolution, doing things easier and better meant we could survive for longer, be more alert while giving ourselves the necessities (food, water, shelter). It carries on today and through history because the idea of what is a necessity changes. Languages became a necessity to make things easier to do. It is not possible to clear your mind of all thoughts, as we are always thinking. Ever try to meditate? It's hard....... We've developed complex emotion. Hate, compassion, love, only a few of these complexities that we call emotions. I guess that we feel emotions from certain hormones in our bodies. But what triggers these hormones? Pheramones? Maybe...Maybe that is all that makes us think. Hormones. Emotion is a byproduct of having a conscientious mind. The chemical reason for emotion is hormones, but the ability to recognize the emotions is all about the mind. Maybe god just gave us a major jumpstart. He made us the perfect machine if he did... You may think this because you are comfortable in your air-conditioned room, typing on your computer, groomed....but what if you were laying next to a straw shack in Africa, with AIDS. Having ulsers and bleeding everywhere, barely clothed, sweating because your body can't handle the amount of heat pounding on you. Do you think a god made you perfect...even in comparison to a dinosaur? Would you thinking about why you are alive? I know I wouldn't. Humans can develop emotional connections, languages, mathmatics, chemistry, a way to understand their environment because once we became smart enough to survive, we continued to strive for something better. We had time to think. Dinosaurs were always occupied with basic survival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 The problem with emotions is that they are an evolutionary disadvantage. Pity and social anxiety work against natural selection. It's interesting that many of the uniquely human psychological instincts are countervolutionary (although other primates are known to exhibit pity). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blike Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 The problem with emotions is that they are an evolutionary disadvantage. Could you elaborate more specifically how? [i'm not disagreeing, just asking] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aman Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 Pity is a form of empathy. If empathy evolves then you form a society that works as a team. Social anxiety could mean you are just an intelligent nerd but you are still valuable to the society. I think all the emotions have their value if the individual is well balanced. If your a defected psychological deviant with no emotional control then the society will probably kill you. Just aman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 It doesn't serve evolution to save the weak. By eliminating competition for survival, you eliminate the driving force of evolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aman Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 It becomes advantageous to save the weak for their knowledge. Humans aren't born like animals who have most of the skills they need to survive. The more advanced the group, the more that can be lost by a single elderly member or disabled members death. Just aman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 Anything more than basic knowledge is not a survival factor. In fact, the cretins breed more... so being ignorant is more of an advantage than being a genius. Knowledge needed to survive can be imparted by just about anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 An 80 year doesn't have any knowledge that would help a 30 year old reproduce, at least not any that other 30 year olds don't have. Also, consider that language only came along 200,000 years ago by a random mutation, so obviously before that there were no elderly by our standards today, and certainly no way to communicate high level knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aman Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 What about elders that know the way to the food sources during the changes of seasons and where the water is from past successful forrays. Before 10,000 years ago we were pretty much nomads. There were dangerous places to avoid and difficult but great far away places to go. Skills needed to be remembered and taught to a constant flow of new children. I thought the life span was pretty short in the early days so anyone in the group who survived and knew things was valuable. I think the weak and intelligent were supported and the weak and stupid were either left to die or kicked out. Just aman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 Wouldn't be an advantage to share outside your own family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aman Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 It would be if you wanted to lure specific members from another tribe or help allies survive for the strength in numbers. Just aman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquila Audax Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 what kind of defense do we have? None! So through natural selection, the early humans developed an expanded brain because that was their defense. By this logic little white mice should rule the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquila Audax Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 The problem with emotions is that they are an evolutionary disadvantage. Pity and social anxiety work against natural selection. It's interesting that many of the uniquely human psychological instincts are countervolutionary (although other primates are known to exhibit pity). Primates (and many other species) live in close family groups where co-operation and teamwork are essential. Under those conditions emotions are an evolutionary advantage and animals which don't exhibit the right temperament are pushed down the pecking order. The best way to make friends is to be sociable. These friends are then allies when needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aman Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 A main emotional bond develops with babies and children. The advantage of sacrifice for reasons other than instantaneous gain might have carried over with sentience to more complex situations like elders and shamans. Just aman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Parasite Posted December 3, 2002 Share Posted December 3, 2002 how do humans think though? I don't think even I coudl answer that using reason...its like some weird miracle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aman Posted December 3, 2002 Share Posted December 3, 2002 I am, and I know it, therefore I think! Just aman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grazzhoppa Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 . By this logic little white mice should rule the world. evolution doesn't know where it's going. The abilities of species is determined by what evolution has provided. Take flight for example. Flight is only a by-product of evolution. What are the chances that an organism would evolve to have the right characteristics to take flight? Very small. Same with developing a sense of logic with that expanded brain. And mice can hide under rocks...rodents are hardy creatures. When all the dinosaurs died because of that castostrophic disaster...rodents were left which spurred the age of mammals. Humans are relativly unprotected...they can't sqeeze in tiny places, they have relatively thin skin and minimal body hair. Survival of the fittest...in human's case...survival of the smartest. And that evolution gave logic and "intelligence" as a by-product. That's how I see it. Although it may be twisted in some way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aman Posted December 5, 2002 Share Posted December 5, 2002 Life on Earth seems to try and fill every possible niche of space and energy usage. Long before life flew on wings it flew on the wind and even now bacteria live high in our atmosphere. Maybe we moved towards sentience when it became evident that a niche advantage was gained by organization, eg,ant colonies, bee hives. The same pressure might be on the cellular level to organize and over time we evolved. Just aman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ender Posted December 7, 2002 Share Posted December 7, 2002 I think all of our thoughts are reflex to the need/will/desire to think. A craving for knowledge, and a place to store it. Our brain. Humans were given a jumpstart by this "God" you speak of with the ability to reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aman Posted December 7, 2002 Share Posted December 7, 2002 Howdy Ender, Are you saying that before our minds were formed, we wanted to have intelligence, so we just went and evolved brains that had room to calculate and remember? I don't think that the slightest thing we care about really matters much in the scheme of things. If your talking about a pressure towards sentience I agree but I don't think we have much to do with it. Just aman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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