Computer science or Programming?

[Victor Bushk]

Dear All:

 

I'm finishing my M.S., and the question about taking Ph.D. study is arising. I've been doing research in the field of theoretical computer science, so for me two ways are available: to be programmer or to get Ph.D study. I like both programming and computer science, but I don't know about working conditions in both of them. The key factor for me is a free time: I hate to be prisoner of my job, when job captures me, when it makes me spend evenings and nights by doing work. Money isn't so sufficient for me as free time, I want to have time for my family for my main hobbies - outdoor and photography.

 

I have neither been programmer nor scientist, I would be thankful to hear anyone's thoughts about the situation.

 

Victor B.

[thedarkshade]

First I would like to congratulate you Victor for your achievement.

 

Computer science or Programming?

Programming is hard work (I'm talking about the good programming), and if you work alone it will take a lot of time and the results will often be not so good. It is a job which seeks for patience, creativity, mathematical logic and time. It's a very good addictive job, and it is paid well, but I personally would not like to have that as my main job. You are always challenged, and need to work very hard to be actual which I honestly don't like. Computer science seems more appropriate to me, and probably meets your criteria.

 

All the bests and good luck Victor,

Shade!

[Victor Bushk]

to thedarkshade: Thank you! But one of my acquaintance said next:"At the risk of perpetuating a stereotype, a lot of the programmers that put in long hours/sleep at the office/etc. are 'nerds' that feel (often rightly so) that programming is the most exciting thing in their lives. I suspect they tend to self-aggregate in gaming software and things like that. I also suspect they are a distinct minority among programmers. The ones I work with, for example, have no problem keeping regular, reasonable hours and having real lives outside of work. The only time this isn't the case is when there's a new product release coming up, but every job is going to have times when you have to get the job done."

 

And I was stun by this article http://wuphys.wustl.edu/~katz/scientist.html

 

but thanks for encouraging.

[Pangloss]

Research can also be very time-consuming, and we do need more good people in computer science research. Society needs that a lot more than it needs more programmers! From what I've seen it's mainly teaching that produces extra free time, but that also carries the risk of unemployment (i.e. "publish or perish").

[Victor Bushk]

Can you explain please what do you mean "we do need more good people in computer science research"? Do you mean "Academia needs more people in computer science research" or "Industry needs more people in computer science research"?

 

By the way, Gregory Andrew who is the director of the Division of Computer and Network Systems at National Science Foundation, he says otherwise.

 

Here his interview http://sciencecareers.sciencemag.org/career_development/previous_issues/articles/3220/opportunities_in_computer_science_research/

[Pangloss]

Computer Science programs are declining in general. Enrollment has been down for some time, mainly due (IMO) to the rise of alternative educational strategies for business-style programming methods (client-server database querying and presentation, which is something like 90% of all programming). The article you linked is four years old, right about the time this was first really being noticed, but I did post something the other day about how CS enrollments are climbing again, which I believe is part of a new wave of CS majors who will focus more on new product development and research, rather than "routine" programming tasks, in their careers.

 

I've not done a study on this, but the more I think about it, the more I think I might have to considering doing one. It fits neatly with a lot of what I've been doing lately.

[iNow]

Computer Science programs are declining in general. Enrollment has been down for some time...

Any chance it has something to do with our increasing abiltity to find highly skilled and capable labor in Bangalore?

[Pangloss]

That's a common belief amongst experts, but I also keep seeing stories about how programming jobs (of the routine business variety, e.g. web apps driven by database table contents for reporting orders, inventory, etc) are on the rise, especially in the $40-50k/yr salary range. For a while there was actual talk about the trend being "insourcing" jobs that were previously outsourced.

 

I think the picture is unclear, but something that I think is being increasingly recognized is that many of the traditional reporting sources on this issue are corrupted by internal goals, e.g. Microsoft says "we aren't getting enough applications" or "the applications aren't good enough", publically concludes "there must be a lack of people", and then proceeds to apply for thousands of international work visas. They can do that anyway, but perhaps they're trying to cover their tush when it comes to public perception. Or it may have something to do with what they think some protectionist congresscritter might do to those visas if they don't make statements like that.

 

I'm not an expert in this field, but I'm sensing that those who are experts, both academically and in business, are tossing these same issues around internally and perhaps trying to figure out new ways to approach and analyze the issue.

 

I think the next couple of years in particular will be interesting to watch, especially going into this new recession. For example, a common meme in education is that when employment is down, enrollment automatically rises. That's been the case for decades, but it really spiked in the near-recession of 2000 because of the Clinton-era changes in federal student loan programs. But that well has run dry thanks to the mortgage crisis and rising interest rates, and there's a HUGE question right now in the education sector over whether enrollments will go up at all during this recession. The quarterly jobs report out this week was accepted with an ironic sigh of relief from this sector, because it was reported that huge numbers of people "gave up and stopped looking for work" -- the industry presumption being that they went back to school (which may not actually be the case). It'll be a couple months before we really know, but I thought it notable how many news reports included bits about laid-off workers going back to school.

[iNow]

Good story during my drive home tonight on NPR, where they had an interview with Bill Gates who was in front of Congress today.

 

His basic point is that the cap on VISAs means they can only hire a handful of highly talented, highly skilled people from the top universitites in the country. Once that quota is reached, those highly trained people go to work in other countries. It was interesting (and very business savvy) how much he emphasized wanting the highest skilled over any concerns about where they came from and what US immigration policy looked like.

 

 

 

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=88154016

 

Gates says there is a deficit of Americans with computer-science degrees, and he wants the government to make it easier for Microsoft to hire foreign-born workers.

 

Gates testified before the House Committee on Science Technology Wednesday about what he sees as a need to liberalize rules for H1-B visas for skilled foreign workers.

 

Currently, Congress has set an annual limit on H1-Bs at 65,000, with an additional 20,000 earmarked for foreign students with advanced degrees from U.S. universities.

 

This year, the quota for H1-B visas filled up immediately in April — and leaving June graduates stuck with no recourse but to find work elsewhere.

 

 

LISTEN HERE --> http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=88154016

[Pangloss]

Ooo, nice catch. I had no idea he was going to testify on this issue. Thanks!

 

He has a point -- we don't want bright, domestically-educated foreign students going back home if we can tempt them to stay here.

[Softix]

I think it is much better to explore other areas of interested but you can always choose which you think you like best or like the most. What is important is that you value such course that's why you take it up.