the tree Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 To be fair, drink-driving already offers both of those in one convenient package that doesn't even cost the police a cell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saryctos Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 Well I guess it's a good thing I can have my car keys confiscated even if I have no intention of driving then, isn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoiA Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 How about making drinking and driving an attempted murder or manslaughter offense? I like that one the best... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangloss Posted June 1, 2007 Author Share Posted June 1, 2007 Been done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoiA Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 Where? If spending time in prison for attempted murder, first offense, doesn't stop it, then I say death penalty and just get it over with... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bascule Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 It would work if they could confiscate 'everybodies' car keys as they left, and whether you were going to drive or not, you'd have no choice but to pick them up in the morning. Considering my car keys are on the same keyring as my house keys, and I walk or ride my bike to the pub/bar, let me say that approach f*cking sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john5746 Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 Speaking from experience, many do not realize how easy it is to hit the legal limit. I think the problem is much, much larger than we realize. Driving is a privaledge that should be revoked as soon as you drink alcohol. The bar should take your keys and return them only if you pass a breathalizer or you have a designated driver. As far as education, etc, well we see how abstinence education worked. There will still be drunk driving if we do the above, but at least it is a serious attempt at the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the tree Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 Well I guess it's a good thing I can have my car keys confiscated even if I have no intention of driving then, isn't it. Considering my car keys are on the same keyring as my house keys, and I walk or ride my bike to the pub/bar, let me say that approach f*cking sucks. It's not that huge an inconvenience to you to think "Hey, I'm going to be drinking tonight, better leave my car keys at home" is it? Even if that means taking them off the ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saryctos Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 It's not that huge an inconvenience to you to think "Hey, I'm going to be drinking tonight, better leave my car keys at home" is it? Even if that means taking them off the ring. Well you're not looking @ the problems here. The deep retarted problems. Designated driver holds the keys, goes into the bar, on attempt to leave either has his keys revoked, and everyone's screwed, ooor the guy who looks sober gets out with his keys, and becuase the bouncers now have the responsibility to take keys away, they now are able to be sued for negligence. Stupid things like that can and will happen. Ontop of the fact that I would more than likely be driving to the bar in the first place, so yea, leaving keys at home would be quite annoying. The ammount of possible hassle it passes on to the non-idiots is far greater than the effect it would have on the drunk driving problem. There are all kinds of ways a drunk can get around giving up his keys. Not nearly as many ways for those who obey the law to not be inconvenienced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoiA Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 What about cars that don't use keys? What about the future cars that may or may not use anything that's able to be confiscated? And how do you know who drove? 10 cars and 27 people...gee who's keys do you take? And how are you going to stop someone from parking around the corner, or a block away? Since when is a business compelled to supply bouncers? Why should they have to pay for it? How many bouncers per pub? Funny, how their business is about drinking and staying in one spot, yet they're the target of your solution to stop people from drunk driving. Why is it their problem? They didn't make you drive. They don't care how you get there. There is no direct responsibility between the bar and drunk drivers. There is between the bar and drunks...not drunk drivers. I really don't get it. You are basically advocating picking citizens out of mix and forcing them to make others adhere to the law. That's weird. How about examining the lack of sense in having public bars yet putting people in jail for public drunk....you have go into public in order to get back to your private property. In fact, I see no legal way to leave a bar drunk. If that's the case, then no bar should allow anyone to get drunk right? When's the last time you saw a breathilizer? They should be hanging on a rack at your convenience store. They should be sold at the bar, or provided as a service. Where's the sense in defining a blood alcohol level and tool to measure it with, yet keep the ability away from the public - the public who has been directed to stay within it and has no means to measure? I don't think it's a conspiracy to keep it away from the public, and I know it's not illegal for us to own breathilizers, but I've always found it odd how you never see them anywhere. We're supposed to know when our blood alcohol level reaches 1.0....magically??? I still like attempted murder charges, first offence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bascule Posted June 2, 2007 Share Posted June 2, 2007 It's not that huge an inconvenience to you to think "Hey, I'm going to be drinking tonight, better leave my car keys at home" is it? Even if that means taking them off the ring. Then how do they know which keys go to your car? Speaking as a (small-l) libertarian here, I don't believe anyone who isn't acting in an official capacity has the right to confiscate property which I carry on my person. I would tend to call that "robbery" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padren Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 It would be really easy to have a set of spare keys you hand to the bouncer - then use the hide-a-key already on your car. Also, your blood alcohol level can actually go up after you stop drinking, I had a friend that was at .24 and after two hours in 'the tank' ended blowing .28...he actually got caught because realized he couldn't drive and should wait in his car till someone could pick him up, and he pulled over until a cop did. Unfortunately where I live, its a very ingrained culture phenomenon. I can't recall the last time there was a fatality related to that here (small rural town of 10k) but people get busted constantly. Even when they do, it seems like while the cops can hand out a few each night, there are dozens that get by every night. Better transportation (at least here) would be a huge benefit. We don't even have a taxi service, and many people have to drive easily 20 miles on rural roads to get home. A real change in both available options, and something that can drive a shift in people's views on the matter are required in my mind to make a difference. Lashings wouldn't help, when someone has driven for years drunk without getting caught. Secondly, bars are too crazy at closing - they need to get everyone out due to the restrictions on their liquor licenses in a hurry, and the bouncers already have their hands full stopping fights in those last minutes between last call and lights out. Also: at least here, you can drink soda all night for free, the bars won't charge you for non-alcoholic beverages like that, to promote designated driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royston Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 Considering my car keys are on the same keyring as my house keys, and I walk or ride my bike to the pub/bar, let me say that approach f*cking sucks. Ummm, I was just throwing some ideas about...I won't be contacting the government to get this enforced. Like you said though, inoccent parties will probably lose out as well, so it's hardly a fair solution. Perhaps they should develop a sensor that detects alcohol on the breath...attached to the drivers head rest, which prevents the car being started if alcohol is detected, and the same happens if you try to remove the device. I havn't the foggiest how such a thing would work, but it might be possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the tree Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 Although of course, more pedestrianised town centres, better public transport, driving becomes the least practical option, no need for any new laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abskebabs Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 Perhaps they should develop a sensor that detects alcohol on the breath...attached to the drivers head rest, which prevents the car being started if alcohol is detected, and the same happens if you try to remove the device. I havn't the foggiest how such a thing would work, but it might be possible. I was thinking along the same lines actually. You could equip a breathalyser to the ignition so the vehicle will not start if alcohol is detected. There are ways that this could be manipulated though. Someone could just get a sober person to breathe into the breathalyser, but then both of them would be implicated with the crime, and I think there would be a heavy penalty on the sober person. Also, someone who has drunk alcohol could maliciously hamper someone else's car by breathing into it. I actually got a lot of this, especially the last point from watching an episode of scrubs:D . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the tree Posted June 6, 2007 Share Posted June 6, 2007 I don't think many sober people would really go out of their way to let someone else drive, but anyway, a system like that sounds like it'd be fairly easy to break one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bascule Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 We have a brewery here that serves some mighty strong beers (upwards of 16%) Their approach is to ask every group who arrives who's driving, then limit the number of samples they can drink, and deny them some of the stronger ones. Of course, he never asks me that. Perhaps because I walk in holding my bike helmet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnB Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 I don't see why. They are already trained to perform citizen's arrests, they know everything to know about what constitutes reasonable force, they're practically like a very specialised police force already. Different laws. Bouncers in Australia do not have the legal right to detain and they most definitely are not, in any way, a police force. You're still suggesting a retroactive response, nothing you suggest could be done before a drunk person gets behind the wheel. As has been shown, there is no concrete way to prevent the first offence so we need to prevent the second and later offences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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