SNAVEZNAD Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 If you light thermite, does anyone know of anythin you can do to stop the reaction?? or is 2500+ degrees of molten iron simply unstoppable:confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radman Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 heh, yeah once it's started i don't think anything can stop it, since it doesn't need oxygen or anything other than the reactants. Cheers Kyle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanJ Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 If you light thermite, does anyone know of anythin you can do to stop the reaction?? or is 2500+ degrees of molten iron simply unstoppable:confused: Daniel is it? yes once it is started there is no way to stop it. It actually produces its own Oxygen and everything it needs so it actually drives its self. Once its started there is no stopping it. Nothing, nothing can stop the redox reaction once it has started so unless you want it to continue don't even start the reaction [ce]Fe_2O_3 + 2Al --> Al_2O_3 + 2Fe (\Delta H -851.5kJ/mol)[/ce] Extremly exothermic, tipping anything on it would make no difference, be it water (Probably split into Hydrogen and Oxygen and then react formaing water again) or even liquid nitrogen! Cheers, Ryan Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 I`ve thrown thermit grenades under water before reaction, nothing changes! also it depends on the quantity, if you can remove the reacting part from the unreacted part then yes, damage limitation is about you best bet, other than that, you`ve got No Chance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaAotS Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 so nothing can stop it? how bout throwing it into space lol... vacuum + extreme cold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanJ Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 so nothing can stop it? how bout throwing it into space lol... vacuum + extreme cold Vacuum makes little difference because this stuff makes its own Oxygen... Cold may make a difference but it prduces a hell of a lot of heat. Presuming you had enough of it it would probably still continue! And YT2095 where did you get hold of some thermite grenades? Cheers, Ryan Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 Millitary Ordinance and some I made myself (watching it burn underwater is fascinating!), needless to say, I`ve tried several variations and "critical geometries" to test what`s needed, basicly if it`ll work in air, it`ll work in water! as for Space (outer) I`m not so sure about, the cold and Vacuum won`t play a part I Know, but the Zero G will, that`s why plain old gunpowder grains in firework engines don`t like to work, and a good many other pyro compositions, the vacuums a killer for alot sure, but the Zero G`s the biggest pain in the a$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woelen Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 Never ever pour water on a running thermite reaction mix!!! This results in instant explosion, with molten metal sprayed around. I once read a story about someone putting a zinc coin on the mix. That also leads to explosion. The heat, produced in the reaction causes the zinc to vaporize at once and the instant expansion of solid zinc to gaseous zinc causes an explosion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanJ Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 Never ever pour water on a running thermite reaction mix!!! This results in instant explosion' date=' with molten metal sprayed around. I once read a story about someone putting a zinc coin on the mix. That also leads to explosion. The heat, produced in the reaction causes the zinc to vaporize at once and the instant expansion of solid zinc to [i']gaseous [/i]zinc causes an explosion! Thermite is a dangerous thing to play with if you don't know what your doing as all our chemistry experts will probably agree. If you get impurities in there too I suppose thet will cause a lot of problems too... especially because you can't stop the stuff... On Brainiac the molten Iron caused the ice to explode and that gives you some idea of the energies involved! Cheers, Ryan Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 the difference here was that the reaction had not started, the primer was, but no thermit reaction, and by that time it was several feet under water but, no, don`t be crazy! adding water to an EXISTING REACTION, will be devastating! I`ve seen watter drops from a leaky roof in an Steel foundry hit vats of molten iron, what doesn`t evaporate on the way down Explodes instanly sending orange hot bits of metal everwhere, it`s Not a good thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanJ Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 but' date=' no, don`t be crazy! adding water to an EXISTING REACTION, will be devastating! I`ve seen watter drops from a leaky roof in an Steel foundry hit vats of molten iron, what doesn`t evaporate on the way down Explodes instanly sending orange hot bits of metal everwhere, it`s Not a good thing![/quote'] Exactly my point, even water is useless at those temperatures... and YT2095 you've seen some pretty cool stuff! YT2095, tell that to Brainiac, so far they have done lots of experiments ith Thermite (great fun to watch, needless destruction) one of them was Liquid Nitrogen vs Thermite and the other was a solid block of ice vs Thermite.. in both cases Thermite won... Who would have guessed?! Cheers, Ryan Jones Cheers, Ryan Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 Brainics great to watch for a laugh, No Seriously,,, It Is and it would probably get some kids interested in Science (if only to spot the more that numerous errors), so yeah, I`ve nothing against the show exactly, but I don`t think I`ll be writing into them anytime soon. as for the nitrogen thermit reaction, that was a Given from the start, anyone with 2 brain cells to keep each other company with would have worked that one out and yeah, if seen quite a few interesting things in my time, and hopefully much much more to come! sadly I don`t have any thermit left, I used the last lot making castings of family members Name Initials as paper weights, they`re no Brilliantly formed, but certainly keep paper in it`s place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanJ Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 Brainics great to watch for a laugh' date=' No Seriously,,, It Is and it would probably get some kids interested in Science (if only to spot the more that numerous errors), so yeah, I`ve nothing against the show exactly, but I don`t think I`ll be writing into them anytime soon. as for the nitrogen thermit reaction, that was a Given from the start, anyone with 2 brain cells to keep each other company with would have worked that one out and yeah, if seen quite a few interesting things in my time, and hopefully much much more to come! sadly I don`t have any thermit left, I used the last lot making castings of family members Name Initials as paper weights, they`re no Brilliantly formed, but certainly keep paper in it`s place [/quote'] Yea Brainiac is good (The science in some bits maybe wrong) but no arguing with the fun of Thermite! (And the danger too...) This is another thing on my One day To-Do list Cheers, Ryan Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 woelen, the zinc thing is pretty disgusting. sheesh. interestingly, lead should boil in thermite mixtures. and silver for that matter. i'd imagine that the lead vaporizing would be scary as all hell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyromaster22 Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 i think the water reacts with the molten iron to produce iron oxide and hydrogen. The hydrogen is the gas that causes the explosion, and because the iron is molten the reaction is extremely fast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanJ Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 i think the water reacts with the molten iron to produce iron oxide and hydrogen. The hydrogen is the gas that causes the explosion, and because the iron is molten the reaction is extremely fast Yea I'd agree with that. Not that I want to examine it... water an that kind of heat seem like a bad miz like a bath with a person in it an electricity... LOL Cheers, Ryan Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xeluc Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 I've always known iron to create Iron Hydroxide first when expopsed to water. Of course then that loses H's and turns into Fe2O3. Is this correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanJ Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 I've always known iron to create Iron Hydroxide first when expopsed to water. Of course then that loses H's and turns into Fe2O3. Is this correct? I'm not really shure. I think that it may be correct (Not 100% shure on this) because water splits up into [ce]OH^-[/ce] and [ce]H^+[/ce], this would suggest that Iron(II) Hyrdoxide ([ce]FeOH_2[/ce]) should be formed. Like I said I'm not at all shure about that though Cheers, Ryan Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xeluc Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 Regardless, you end up with Fe2O3 one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanJ Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 Regardless, you end up with Fe2O3 one way or the other. Yup... perfect for a nice warm thermite reaction! Cheers, Ryan Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdurg Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 The vast majority of the 'explosion' is caused by the liquid water instantly boiling away. As it boils, that little one milliliter in volume water expands to an enormous size as it suddenly becomes steam and throws molten iron all over the place. The chemical reaction with water is the least of the worries there. It's more the physical expansion of it that's dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calbiterol Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 That could have some military applications. Modify thermite grenades into molten iron grenades. That would be a "crowd-control" device for sure. Especially since there's no way to stop it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanJ Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 That could have some military applications. Modify thermite grenades into molten iron grenades. That would be a "crowd-control" device for sure. Especially since there's no way to stop it. If you call spraying people with liquid iron a deterant, I call it pure sue time. I'm not shure you could modify it in that way as it melts just about everything you put in it... You'r better off staying with the flash-bang grenades Cheers, Ryan Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjruu Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 Thermite is made from aluminum and iron oxide, right? Just out of curiosity, will shreded aluminum foil work? Or is that not pure enough? How do you light thermite? I've read a sparker, like a 4th of July firework tpye sparker will work, but that seems to be a stretch... And how did you make your own thermite granades, YT2095? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanJ Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 Thermite is made from aluminum and iron oxide' date=' right? Just out of curiosity, will shreded aluminum foil work? Or is that not pure enough? How do you light thermite? I've read a sparker, like a 4th of July firework tpye sparker will work, but that seems to be a stretch... And how did you make your own thermite granades, YT2095?[/quote'] Aluminium foil will not work - nope. For one its coated in plastic same for the Iron(III) Oxide. Impurities in the mix could cause problems but I'm not shure we are allowed to discuss making the thing here as it could be classed as very dangerous @ 2500 degrees C. Just put it this way (General not to anyone): unless you know what you are doing stay away from this stuff! I've seen this tuff burn right through a safe in no time... I think any of the other chemists here would agree people don't tend to live very long when things can go wrong with the mixture as discussed here. I think a sparker would work but I'm not shure I'd like to try it... And also I think YT2095 was testing the thermite granades Cheers, Ryan Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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