Found a fun article  - “The Science Behind Salt and Vinegar Chips”  - which goes into the use of Maltodextrin and sodium diacetate  in some detail:

https://www.seriouseats.com/the-best-salt-and-vinegar-chips-tasting-brands-most-acidic

I particularly liked this citation from "The English Housewife: Containing the Inward and Outward Virtues Which Ought to be in a Complete Woman", published in 1615 !

"To make dry vinegar which you may carry in your pocket, you shall take blades of green corn, either wheat or rye, and beat it in a mortar with the strongest vinegar you can get till it come to a paste; then roll it into little balls, and dry it in the sun till it be very hard; when you have an occasion to use it, cut a little piece thereof and dissolve it in wine, and it will make a strong vinegar."

As a child I can recall buying packs of Smith’s ‘Salt ’n Shake’ crisps which contained a  pinch of salt wrapped up in a twist of blue waxed paper (this would have been c. 1961). They were first introduced in the early 1920s, and allowed people to adjust the saltiness of crisps to their own taste.

15 minutes ago, toucana said:

Found a fun article  - “The Science Behind Salt and Vinegar Chips”  - which goes into the use of Maltodextrin and sodium diacetate  in some detail:

https://www.seriouseats.com/the-best-salt-and-vinegar-chips-tasting-brands-most-acidic

I particularly liked this citation from "The English Housewife: Containing the Inward and Outward Virtues Which Ought to be in a Complete Woman", published in 1615 !

"To make dry vinegar which you may carry in your pocket, you shall take blades of green corn, either wheat or rye, and beat it in a mortar with the strongest vinegar you can get till it come to a paste; then roll it into little balls, and dry it in the sun till it be very hard; when you have an occasion to use it, cut a little piece thereof and dissolve it in wine, and it will make a strong vinegar."

As a child I can recall buying packs of Smith’s ‘Salt ’n Shake’ crisps which contained a  pinch of salt wrapped up in a twist of blue waxed paper (this would have been c. 1961). They were first introduced in the early 1920s, and allowed people to adjust the saltiness of crisps to their own taste.

Great piece of research. +1

So there could have been a dry source of vinegar flavouring available in the c.19th or before. Well I never.

But like you I’d be very surprised if this is what the large caster was for in the cruet set. As you say, there was already a vinegar bottle, so why would one want a large dispenser for a dry version of something one already had in its original, more flavourful, form? Caster sugar seems far more likely to me.

7 hours ago, exchemist said:

The first route would seem to suggest esterification, i.e. with the hydroxyl groups of the glucose units making up the maltodextrin polymer.

It may suggest that to you, but not to me.
I know that maltodextrin is used as a sorbent

I'd expect any acetate of maltodextrin to behave a bit like either
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sucrose_octaacetate
which is very bitter
Or
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellulose_acetate
Which is tasteless.

1 hour ago, toucana said:

"To make dry vinegar which you may carry in your pocket, you shall take blades of green corn, either wheat or rye, and beat it in a mortar with the strongest vinegar you can get till it come to a paste; then roll it into little balls, and dry it in the sun till it be very hard; when you have an occasion to use it, cut a little piece thereof and dissolve it in wine, and it will make a strong vinegar."

That's interesting.
I wonder if it was chemistry or microbiology.
If you add an inoculum of acetic acid bacteria to wine, you will get vinegar.

It does seem redundant to have a solid form of vinegar in the same cruet as the liquid- but it's not impossible.
It's possible that the filling for the "third pot in the set" was left to the choice of the household (or their butler).

Apparently, it's mentioned in some late 19th century catalogues as for mustard powder. The authour theorizes that the third shaker disappeared because of lack of popular use of mustard powder sometime after. or it was replaced for the wet stuff, which negated the need for that one. Sugar use was dismissed because that was extremely expensive for common use when these things were conceived some 250 years ago.

Edited June 9Jun 9 by StringJunky

5 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

It may suggest that to you, but not to me.
I know that maltodextrin is used as a sorbent

I'd expect any acetate of maltodextrin to behave a bit like either
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sucrose_octaacetate
which is very bitter
Or
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellulose_acetate
Which is tasteless.

That's interesting.
I wonder if it was chemistry or microbiology.
If you add an inoculum of acetic acid bacteria to wine, you will get vinegar.

It does seem redundant to have a solid form of vinegar in the same cruet as the liquid- but it's not impossible.
It's possible that the filling for the "third pot in the set" was left to the choice of the household (or their butler).

Ah so just adsorbed rather than any chemical reaction, then. OK.

1 hour ago, StringJunky said:

Apparently, it's mentioned in some late 19th century catalogues as for mustard powder. The authour theorizes that the third shaker disappeared because of lack of popular use of mustard powder sometime after. or it was replaced for the wet stuff, which negated the need for that one. Sugar use was dismissed because that was extremely expensive for common use when these things were conceived some 250 years ago.

I suspect it also may have had something to do with changing methods of manufacturing and dispensing sugar. Sugar cane was originally regarded as a very expensive ‘rare spice’ which could only be grown in warm climates. It wasn’t until the very end of the 18th century that the discovery of sugar beet enabled domestic sugar production in colder north European countries to begin.

Round about 1875 Henry Tate acquired the UK patent rights for the manufacture of lump sugar which had originally been invented in Bohemia in the 1840s, and improved upon in Germany. At about the same time, improved methods of sugar-refining, notably the advent of centrifuge separation of sucrose from molasses meant that bags of loose granulated sugar became more widely and cheaply available. Instead of purchasing rock hard sugar loaves that had to be smashed to pieces with sugar axes and nips, then laboriously ground to a fine powder with a pestle and mortar; households could now relegate castor sugar from the dining table to the kitchen where it was increasingly used solely for baking purposes, and much less often as a table sugar.

1 hour ago, StringJunky said:

Apparently, it's mentioned in some late 19th century catalogues as for mustard powder. The authour theorizes that the third shaker disappeared because of lack of popular use of mustard powder sometime after. or it was replaced for the wet stuff, which negated the need for that one. Sugar use was dismissed because that was extremely expensive for common use when these things were conceived some 250 years ago.

Makes sense to me. Mustard was a popular condiment and has long been valued as a digestive aid and for its antimicrobial properties (though that would have been framed as "healing properties" before the germ theory of disease emerged), as well. Sprinkling mustard on food would likely have been seen as both adding flavor and healthful.

OT side comment: I love mustard. And I like wine flavoring. So Dijon mustard is basically a harmonic convergence. A close second is mustard plus horseradish, traditionally known as Dusseldorf German Mustard. Both horseradish and mustard are members of the Brassicaceae family, though different genera. (actually, various mustards are different genera, as well) Rapeseed is also a mustard plant (genus Brassica), and I have no difficulty understanding why its extracted oil is marketed as canola, rather than rapeseed oil. (the Canadians, leading producers of rape (those poor farmers!), came up with the canola moniker, Canadian Oil, Low Acid, to describe a more flavorful (i.e. less bitter and acidic) variety)

12 hours ago, exchemist said:

...But like you I’d be very surprised if this is what the large caster was for in the cruet set. As you say, there was already a vinegar bottle, so why would one want a large dispenser for a dry version of something one already had in its original, more flavourful, form? Caster sugar seems far more likely to me.

In my youth, much of which was spent in Scarborough, fish and chip restaurants were plentiful and the tables always had three shakers: two small ones for salt and pepper and a larger one for sugar. The latter was to sweeten your tea - the only beverage provided in such establishments.

I do recall mistakenly putting sugar on my chips. A mistake you only make once.

4 hours ago, TheVat said:

OT side comment: I love mustard...

Me too, though European mustards are hard to obtain/ridiculously expensive in my neck of the woods. However, our large Indian community ensures the ready availability of black mustard seeds and mustard oil, which services my home production of pickled onions and lime pickle.

I'm trying to summon the courage to try these options on devilled kidneys and devilled eggs, both of which I've previously only made with Coleman's English. I know the yellow is just turmeric, but will roasted and ground black mustard seeds made into a paste with mustard oil be a good substitute? Guess there's only one way to find out.

Edited June 9Jun 9 by sethoflagos
Correction

I'd love to find melon chutney in such a container. Mango will do.

11 hours ago, sethoflagos said:

In my youth, much of which was spent in Scarborough, fish and chip restaurants were plentiful and the tables always had three shakers: two small ones for salt and pepper and a larger one for sugar. The latter was to sweeten your tea - the only beverage provided in such establishments.

I do recall mistakenly putting sugar on my chips. A mistake you only make once.

Me too, though European mustards are hard to obtain/ridiculously expensive in my neck of the woods. However, our large Indian community ensures the ready availability of black mustard seeds and mustard oil, which services my home production of pickled onions and lime pickle.

I'm trying to summon the courage to try these options on devilled kidneys and devilled eggs, both of which I've previously only made with Coleman's English. I know the yellow is just turmeric, but will roasted and ground black mustard seeds made into a paste with mustard oil be a good substitute? Guess there's only one way to find out.

Try it. From the ingredients it should be good, even if different.

Well, in the interest of science, an experiment.

About 3 tsps of black mustard seeds.

After 15 minutes mortar and pestle action beneath the blazing sun...

NB when I tried this with unroasted seeds, I got nowhere fast.

Split the ground seeds into three portions and formed paste with plain water (top left), 5% white vinegar (top right), and mustard oil (bottom). Tsp of turmeric in the middle for contrast.

Water gave no discernable taste. White vinegar, a faint, sweet taste reminiscent of German mustard. But mustard oil released a strong mustard kick (that isn't in the oil alone) that had more than a hint of horseradish to it.

So I mixed all three with the turmeric adding a bit more vinegar and oil to get the right consistency, and tested it out on barbecued liver and kidney.

Definitely had worse.

But I need to treat myself to an electric spice grinder.

Edited June 10Jun 10 by sethoflagos
sp

1 hour ago, sethoflagos said:

But I need to treat myself to an electric spice grinder.

I have two - one for savoury spices, one for poppy seeds, sunflower and sesame seeds (and pills). So I don't have to wash them after use, just a quick wipe with a damp cloth. I've lost my mustard recipe, but I know it started with yellow mustard seed, grape seed oil and wine vinegar. (Any wine that's gone sour will do; mine was home made wild grape or apple.) Water's for horses.

On 6/10/2025 at 1:13 AM, Peterkin said:

I'd love to find melon chutney in such a container. Mango will do.

My Victorian maternal great-aunts in the Isle of Wight used to make a wonderful concoction called ‘Kashmir Chutney’ which they brewed up in a gigantic preserving pan filled with produce from the extensive fruit gardens around the house - following a hand-written recipe in a book that has been carefully passed down through the family for generations.

This Kashmir chutney was basically an apple chutney with ginger which was served in a cut-glass decanter with a stoppered lid. I’ve only ever found one commercially available chutney quite like it, and that was Baxters Albert’s Victorian Chutney.

Two other mustard related sauces that were popular in the Victorian era come to mind:

i. Piccalilli (with many variant spellings) -  is a mustard pickle that can be traced all the way back to a recipe from 1694 where it was called "Pickle Lila, an Indian Pickle"  - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piccalilli

ii. Horseradish sauce -  which owes its unique flavour to the fact that when the root is cut or grated:

enzymes from within the plant cells digest sinigrin (a glucosinolate) to produce allyl isothiocyanate (mustard oil), which irritates the mucous membranes of the sinuses and eyes.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseradish

Victorian cooks were fond of making Horseradish sauce from freshly cut plants to go with their roast beef. Back in 1856  this practice led to a memorable accidental poisoning in Dingwall Scotland, when a servant sent to harvest the plant in the herb garden accidentally brought back the root of Monkshood (Aconitum) instead. Three of the dinner guests  at a party hosted by the provost of Dingwall subsequently died from aconite poisoning.

https://www.fabledcollective.com/aconite-monkshood-wolfsbane/#google_vignette

5 minutes ago, toucana said:

My Victorian maternal great-aunts in the Isle of Wight used to make a wonderful concoction called ‘Kashmir Chutney’ which they brewed up in a gigantic preserving pan filled with produce from the extensive fruit gardens around the house - following a hand-written recipe in a book that has been carefully passed down through the family for generations.

This Kashmir chutney was basically an apple chutney with ginger which was served in a cut-glass decanter with a stoppered lid. I’ve only ever found one commercially available chutney quite like it, and that was Baxters Albert’s Victorian Chutney.

Two other mustard related sauces that were popular in the Victorian era come to mind:

i. Piccalilli (with many variant spellings) -  is a mustard pickle that can be traced all the way back to a recipe from 1694 where it was called "Pickle Lila, an Indian Pickle"  - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piccalilli

ii. Horseradish sauce -  which owes its unique flavour to the fact that when the root is cut or grated:

Victorian cooks were fond of making Horseradish sauce from freshly cut plants to go with their roast beef. Back in 1856  this practice led to a memorable accidental poisoning in Dingwall Scotland, when a servant sent to harvest the plant in the herb garden accidentally brought back the root of Monkshood (Aconitum) instead. Three of the dinner guests  at a party hosted by the provost of Dingwall subsequently died from aconite poisoning.

https://www.fabledcollective.com/aconite-monkshood-wolfsbane/#google_vignette

Horseradish is still very much in use today, esp. with roast or grilled beef and smoked fish. I like it a lot and went to some trouble to get it when we lived in The Hague: mierikswortel in Dutch, raifort in French. Piccalilli I never liked and have not seen around since was a kid, but I expect it is still made.

Chutney I see the point of with Indian dishes but not otherwise. Tends to be the sort of useless substance relatives make out of surplus garden produce and suggest you put on cheese, thereby wrecking it - unless it was just a terrible cheese to start with.

20 hours ago, sethoflagos said:

But mustard oil released a strong mustard kick (that isn't in the oil alone)

The food chemistry of adding oils (even bland oils) is powerful, as it helps to dissolve and distribute fat-soluble compounds in the spice or herb which are the main sources of flavor. Fats spread over the taste buds and stay in contact with them longer, enough to fully transmit the volatiles which carry flavor. Learned early when making oatmeal for breakfast - adding cinnamon, and then a spoonful of cooking oil, the oil seemed to triple the intensity of the spice.

(Up vote, esp for concluding your experiment with the ingestion of liver)

15 hours ago, toucana said:

Piccalilli (with many variant spellings)

Victorian relish? An excellent candidate. Perhaps the larger container was for whatever the household favoured, or whatever went with the menu.

On 6/11/2025 at 2:15 PM, TheVat said:

The food chemistry of adding oils (even bland oils) is powerful, as it helps to dissolve and distribute fat-soluble compounds in the spice or herb which are the main sources of flavor. Fats spread over the taste buds and stay in contact with them longer, enough to fully transmit the volatiles which carry flavor.

I was also drawn into looking at the action of the enzyme myrosinase that in the presence of water convert glucosinates to the spicy isothiocyantes as mentioned in @toucana's last post. The enzyme's action is apparently reduced by higher temperatures and reduced pH.

Although in Indian cuisine, mustard seeds seem invariably to be dry roasted or fried in ghee for half a minute or so, I'm wondering if this detracts from the heat strength of the flavour.

Also, presumably it takes sometime for the enzymatic reaction to proceed, so my taste test immediately after adding water was probably premature. Should have let it stand for a few minutes.

@Peterkin, when you made your own mustard, did you heat the seeds first? As mentioned earlier, I've tried grinding them without pre-roasting and made very little progress with my basic kit.

5 hours ago, sethoflagos said:

when you made your own mustard, did you heat the seeds first?

No, I pulverized the seeds, added the other stuff and cooked all of it - can't recall how long - to blend the flavours. Then I canned it the same way I did chutney, hot pepper sauce and tomato salsa. My SO made marmalade and jellies. We sold them at a farmers' market. Great fun. But this was 25 years ago. All I make now is melon chutney and pickled roast pepper.