Remote Viewing Experience and String Theory?

[johnddexter]

https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00791R000200180005-5.pdf

I feel uncomfortable with the idea.  I mean even publicly speaking about it makes me seem crazy, I just want to know if any researcher has ever tried to correlate or research it further?           

I am not a Science guy, I am not a Stone Magic Mom and I am just curious on what you guys think. 

I know it is in Public widely regarded as Pseudo Science, even I am still in full skepticism, but since yesterday I got sucked into an Alex Jones like Rabbit hole regarding the Remote Viewing Experiments of the US government in the 70s-90s, after I had watched the badly edited but well presented Prime documentary "Third Eyes Spies", that deals with 2 decades worth of experimentation, . I started to read about Operation Stargate and Operation Sun Burst from the CIA  documents, listened to interviews from the people who were working on it. They found no reasons for the phenomenas, but it is decades old and I was internalizing it and on my way to the bus station it kind off hit me. I don't claim to be a scientist or have any deeper understanding for it but surface knowledge. I would say, that I have at least a grasp on the fundamental concept of Quantum Physics, but as far as String Theory goes, and our brain being made up of Quantums as well, wouldn't it be possible that the String Theory is correlated with numbers they found and the existence of Remote Viewing Experiences? They could never find a reason for their numbers, the evaluation was done by Dr Utts and Doctor Hymann  (a believer and a skeptic) and two unnamed Senior Scientists from AIR, and as the evaluation claims: "A statistically significant laboratory effort has been demonstrated in the sense that hits occur more often than chance". Publicly they shut down the experiments in 1995. 
 I would love if someone really knowledgable in the field, could tell me that my idea of our brains under certain conditions being able to manipulate quantum particles is ludicrous and give me a list of "here is why's", that isn't because you can't measure it...yet, at least if two decades of backed by the US government science at least giving a hint at there being something.

Would love if someone gave me a reason not to think of the implications. 

Edited February 12, 2020 by Strange
Fix link

[Strange]

 

52 minutes ago, johnddexter said:

They could never find a reason for their numbers, the evaluation was done by Dr Utts and Doctor Hymann  (a believer and a skeptic) and two unnamed Senior Scientists from AIR, and as the evaluation claims: "A statistically significant laboratory effort has been demonstrated in the sense that hits occur more often than chance". Publicly they shut down the experiments in 1995. 

As they also say, there is no evidence that this is due to psychic abilities.

I imagine the research was shut down because any effect was small, unreproducible and not of much value. For example, imagine you have someone who is able, slightly more often than chance able to give an accurate description of a remote location (I don't know what that means in numbers) and the rest of the time they are wrong. You have no idea of knowing whether any particular "viewing" is one of the correct ones or one of the wrong ones. If the success rate is only slightly better than chance, you might as well roll a dice.

I can't see any reason why quantum effects should be involved (any more than they are involved in everything anyway). And they don't suggest that in the report.

 

[johnddexter]

It is not suggested by the report, and I didn't try to claim that it is, I will try to be clearer with what I would like to discuss (english isn't my first language): 

Because I think they only killed this specific program if I am not mistaken it was in 95, and it might have lead nowhere, but I just started to look into it. It might still go on; and I am not sure of the reason for the declassification of this information. But it is besides the point, I wanted to start a discussion around: I would love to know, if any of you could come up with an explanation for this phenomenas with Quantum Physics. They couldn't  find a reason for the data, and while there could be a good reason for it, just believe that it is real for a second....these Remote Viewing phenomenas.

Is there a possibility that the brain could with Quantum physics theoretically do it? 

 

Edited February 12, 2020 by johnddexter
(wording)

[Strange]

16 minutes ago, johnddexter said:

I would love to know, if any of you could come up with an explanation for this phenomenas with Quantum Physics.

I am not convinced there is any phenomenon to be explained. (I think flaws in the experiments or analysis of the results is a much more plausible explanation.)

IF there is a phenomenon to be explained, I would not start with quantum physics as a possible explanation. Any analogous concepts that we are aware of (transmitting signals from one place to another) rely entirely on classical concepts. So I would start there. But there aren't really any plausible mechanisms.

[Phi for All]

5 minutes ago, johnddexter said:

I would love to know, if any of you could come up with an explanation for this phenomenas with Quantum Physics.

It seems clear to me from the report that the studies were discontinued because they couldn't test a source for the phenomenon, it wasn't enough of an effect to gain the attention of the military, and they couldn't really find an application that would motivate further investigation. 

11 minutes ago, johnddexter said:

They couldn't for the data, and while there could be a good reason for it, just believe that it is real for a second, these Remote Viewing phenomenas.

Before I would assume it was real for even a second, I'd need to exhaust the other more mundane explanations. I know the methodology was claimed to be sound, but I also noticed they used National Geographic photos in the tests, so question #1 for the testers is, what did you do to remove the influence of NatGeo's signature style? Wouldn't I be influenced if I noticed that all the photos of "remote locations" looked like they came from a magazine (especially a magazine I was very familiar with)?

[johnddexter]

16 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

It seems clear to me from the report that the studies were discontinued because they couldn't test a source for the phenomenon, it wasn't enough of an effect to gain the attention of the military, and they couldn't really find an application that would motivate further investigation. 

Before I would assume it was real for even a second, I'd need to exhaust the other more mundane explanations. I know the methodology was claimed to be sound, but I also noticed they used National Geographic photos in the tests, so question #1 for the testers is, what did you do to remove the influence of NatGeo's signature style? Wouldn't I be influenced if I noticed that all the photos of "remote locations" looked like they came from a magazine (especially a magazine I was very familiar with)?

You see that is why my head is hurting since yesterday. If I think of mind as nothing more than an electric signal containing information, the simple fact that it could theoretically be achieved if I apply, what I have understood about Quantum Physics and String theory (and my knowledge is really surface). For me in the end it is not about whether Remote Viewing is real or not (Idk, if they were, would I be able to look up the data? They would probably just start a new program with a new codename, after the ended the one in 95? I will never know), but if there were real, could it be theoretically possible to explain Remote Viewing with our understanding of Quantum theory? (that is what I came here for. I just had this question on my mind the whole day) 

[Phi for All]

18 minutes ago, johnddexter said:

You see that is why my head is hurting since yesterday. If I think of mind as nothing more than an electric signal containing information,

Perhaps look into the differences between modern electrical applications and an electrochemical system like the brain. 

18 minutes ago, johnddexter said:

the simple fact that it could theoretically be achieved if I apply, what I have understood about Quantum Physics and String theory (and my knowledge is really surface).

If this were true, we could predict that physicists would start reporting that remote locations keep popping up unbidden into their minds. Perhaps we could poll a few of the professionals we have here on site?

18 minutes ago, johnddexter said:

For me in the end it is not about whether Remote Viewing is real or not (Idk, if they were, would I be able to look up the data? They would probably just start a new program with a new codename, after the ended the one in 95? I will never know),

I think your question is very much about whether remote viewing is real or not, because obviously you have jumped to the conclusion that there is a connection with quantum physics. What you're suggesting requires it to be real.

18 minutes ago, johnddexter said:

but if there were real, could it be theoretically possible to explain Remote Viewing with our understanding of Quantum theory? (that is what I came here for. I just had this question on my mind the whole day) 

Is there anything that makes you feel this way, some pattern that seems similar, or some connection that seems meaningful? One of the dangers of this type of speculation is that your brain will fill gaps in your knowledge with something that makes absolutely perfect sense to you if you let it. We're very good at puzzles and patterns, and we look for simple solutions even when none exist.

 

 

Ultimately, I fall back on evolution when it comes to psychic phenomena. If any of it were true, if would confer such an advantage that we'd see more and more demonstrable evidence every generation. Yet, we see none at all.

[johnddexter]

3 hours ago, Phi for All said:

Perhaps look into the differences between modern electrical applications and an electrochemical system like the brain.

I looked up some Neuroscience the signals that send out information and receive information, we know that our thinking manipulates them obviously. The signal have to change depending on the information that travels through your braincells. 

3 hours ago, Phi for All said:

I think your question is very much about whether remote viewing is real or not, because obviously you have jumped to the conclusion that there is a connection with quantum physics. What you're suggesting requires it to be real.

You are obviously right. I had watched a Prime documentary yesterday, Tbh the physicists involved seemed to be pretty sure that there was at least something to it they couldn't explain. It just got my mind racing. I am interested in  theories about what life is or could be, after all I am human, I think asking this questions without going mental about them is quiet healthy. I mean our brain is matter and like all things, it also has to be influenced by the Law of Quantum Physics. The scientist themselves make the case, that a majority of people might have this ability, just not strongly trained or refined (I know it sounds weird, like one of these conspiracy theories, but the CIA documents regarding these things are pretty interesting to say the least and "Third Eye Spies" how the documentary was called make atleast a solid case for the existence of a phenomena).  At the same time, I haven't found any public data surrounding their research, maybe I search the wrong places, but I would like to see some more research done. Maybe it is just the problem of the whole matter being classified, the science being in need of over explanation of possible findings, that nobody would found them other than a government for intelligence purposes or the question at the end of documentary left open, that they keep on researching into it just without telling anybody .
Yeah maybe I just saw some senile old men ramble about something the interpreted in the data or somehow unconsciously influenced themselves with, but if I get that skeptic about data, than I have to ask what is it worth, I think they faced enough eyes on their projects simply because it sounds crazy and they ran on a annually funding basis. The whole research ran for 2 decades, until president Carther misspoke (if what this documentary stated was really true haha). And I don't like to turn to the paranormal. I liked to have a explanation for these things in field of physics; and the CIA guys researching it where physicists. Easy explanation, a field science we don't quite understand yet, it is the first thing I turn to....obviously with not enough knowledge myself

3 hours ago, Phi for All said:

Is there anything that makes you feel this way, some pattern that seems similar, or some connection that seems meaningful? One of the dangers of this type of speculation is that your brain will fill gaps in your knowledge with something that makes absolutely perfect sense to you if you let it. We're very good at puzzles and patterns, and we look for simple solutions even when none exist.

I know that isn't a suitable or acceptable explanation, just one theory, my mind personally plays with. That is why I come here, maybe there is something about it, and it is the first step on getting to know what I hopefully come to find is close to the truth. I am here to ask questions, not to come off as knowing. 

Let's say it really isn't luck, no coincidence, and they themselves come to the conclusion that there has to be at least something out of the ordinary going on, the skeptic evaluating said "that the para scientist should be optimistic about these findings". My head is just trying to make sense of it, obviously, because if it was true, who knows what the implications might be.

Generally the two methods they described here they generally take the approach "the lower the sensual burden on your mind, the better the experienced results". As far as I understood, that is the Ganzfeld Approach they are talking about. In the first report. 

https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00788R001700210008-4.pdf

If I think of life as nothing more than another form of energy. I mean you and I are nothing but flashing information based on a electrical signal, but you are interpretation of the given information, no? That seeing things without a sensory organ is whacky, you don't really have to prove to me. But what if your brain could let something like the information containing your "soul" or what I would call the attributes of unity that confines you receive and interpret swings of quantum information. We are quantum objects aswell, so we swing. Our body has to receive them on a quantum level. What if you could forcefully train yourself to get better at picking them up (some other CIA documents say that the first time you try it the chances you get it right are close to them of being just a lucky guess, but as soon as you start to "train" it, the numbers don't add up to chance anymore). Energy jumping back and forth via strings; I mean we are matter so we have to be be influenced by its rules right? Why shouldn't your brain signals be able to vibrate over long distances, if you manage to hit the right vibrational frequency, and why shouldn't your energy change depending on the functionality your brain takes on right now? So our brain is the membrane, you are the Membrane, the thing that is you, the soul, the signal, the constant energy, whatever you want yourself to be classified as, is the membrane. So if your spirit is energy, your brain might take on the form of a receiver that can take on a signal when your quantum particles of your brain are able to vibrate just right, could information theoretically travel along the vibration of a string in a matter of quantum of seconds, back and forth, apply before my consciousness realizes, interpret information as a kind of foggy picture in my mind...couldn't outer body experiences theoretically with quantum theory be possible? By just receiving and interpreting the information of these strings by being in quiet state. Maybe even by reaching out, unconsciousness is after all faster than consciousness, what if our brain lags behind? 

When I think abstract about: Who knows what your consciousness would take form as if it wasn't confined to a brain. Maybe it is just a wave. 
 

 Because your mind is able to concentrate better on the vibration of the strings. Pick up information, just out of the vibration.

I know I am just imagining things, but I think the ankle my thinking took in this thing as the "easy" explanation at least breaks my brain. I am sure tomorrow, I am going to forget about it, but I like the challenge of abstract thinking based on what I read, even though I am sure it means nothing and I have close to not enough overview on the field or even on what the CIA really in practice did. 

That is why I am sad, that there wasn't more research done on this suspect by more people on a larger amount of individuals by more universities worldwide. It is interesting for me to read about it. I would love to get some answers for these reports, because it doesn't read like something you should state and then kill the program off. So maybe in a few years I know more, or just find out they really have killed the programs completely in 95. 

3 hours ago, Phi for All said:

Perhaps look into the differences between modern electrical applications and an electrochemical system like the brain.

Yeah I should, I hope I find the time. I am interested now. I thought maybe I find people to talk about it without going to the crazy nut jobs, who wouldn't outright sign up on the idea. Even if I had any idea what I was talking about I would need to win over someone. After all that is how one learns, and I also think that is how you don't fall into the pit  

 

4 hours ago, Phi for All said:

Ultimately, I fall back on evolution when it comes to psychic phenomena. If any of it were true, if would confer such an advantage that we'd see more and more demonstrable evidence every generation. Yet, we see none at all.

 

[johnddexter]

10 hours ago, johnddexter said:

Ultimately, I fall back on evolution when it comes to psychic phenomena. If any of it were true, if would confer such an advantage that we'd see more and more demonstrable evidence every generation. Yet, we see none at all.

Lets say, this is true. Couldn't argue one, that the human race made a huge jump during times of prosperity and thinking. I mean we discuss the fabric of multiple universes. Quiet times seem to prosper the spheres of physics and science, which is nothing but collecting and weaving meta data about our universe together. In these areas, if Evolutions takes the path refining your most necessary skills, our observational skills are the first that come to my mind. Getting stronger is great also, a better body makes a better battery makes a better system, but that is besides the point. The last 120 years are incredible if you think about them, and what if we evolved to pick this meta data via strings up subconsciously up. If I think of a human spirit as more of an interface, because obviously most of the activity goes on in background. No matter how you see what earth and life is, wouldn't be it an obvious evolution advantage to be able to pick meta data up about your environment via receptors the brain developed through thinking; or even before that to ensure evolution can take place in the first place, subconciously? How does life know how it has to evolve? There are these weird experiments with people looking at people in a room; and you just being to pick out the person who looked at all of you without seeing them. What if the difference between me and an average animal is, that I am as a human are better slightly at interpreting this meta data I receive at all time from everywhere.  
Our thinking seemed to prosper especially in quiet situations and periods that require a necessary observational skill to prosper (no matter what you do, you kind of have to able to read most rooms to get far), now if I argue that to ensure evolution could pick up life has developed a meta skill of being able to observe the area to ensure survival. I see humans as the "topdogs of evolution", the ultimate survivor wouldn't it make sense that we are just slightly better at picking up this meta data everything seems to be comprised of, even further develop a kind of sense for it until we would be able to use it? It seems that this experiments were done under especially relaxed conditions. If you deconstruct the natural environment and get rid of the noise, the data of your brain seems to flash up with people, but the reaction I always understood as more of a reaction, as safe mechanism to not be void and empty of thinking. Your brain could pull from a million directions. What if one of them is a deeper sense build in the brain, we don't know about because we can't measure it. If I give you the task to think about something certain. What if the Receptors of our brain could pick up and slightly interpret data in quantum strings, as part of our brain structure to not get bored and just die on the spot or log out if you empty your thoughts, and just pull from depths of subconsciousness as a safe mechanism.

I mean we could find out, if we did huge tests with thousands of people and datasets.