Why the concern over whether mental illness is associated with changes to the brain? Either (a) the mind is the brain and therefore any mental process will be associated with a physical change or (b) the mind has some separate existence independent of the brain.

Only in the case of option (b) could we totally dismiss the notion that physical intervention (drugs, ECT, even surgery) would hold out hope for alleviating the symptoms of mental illness.

Has anyone 'cured' depression? Do talking therapies simply help people cope with the symptoms? Are drugs any better? Why avoid one sort of help?

Katie Holmes seems to be having an antidepressant effect on Tom Cruse.

 

Is it just me or is there something in the subtle movements of her facial expressions that betray a "not all together happy with the present situation" type of feeling.

 

?

 

Ignoring the media...I tell you, summit is up with that girl.

Why the concern over whether mental illness is associated with changes to the brain?

 

quite simply because then they become identifiable easily, and so misdiagnosis is avoidable and early treatment is more likely.

when you can actualy SEE the problem, things can become a little easier to treat and the treatments progress monitored more easily, perhaps even a cure may become more self evident as a result.

 

it beats working blind!

In long term schitzophrenia, yes, but I was talking about acute schitzophrenic episodes. These hit (usually males) in the early twenties, but then goes away. If there were significant structural changes, one wouldn't expect such remission.

 

Could it have something to do with testosterone? I know that in other animals, testosterone levels can "prime" certain areas of the brain, perhaps this is happening here too?

 

Mokele

I'm more worried about depression (for myself anyway) as a genetic disease. My great-aunt commited suicide because of depression, and my grandmother went into severe depression after my dad was born. The effects are begining to be apparent in my sister as well, and I have sometimes ascend into this depression too.

 

However, I still do not feel that medication would be right for me. Medicated symptoms you don't have yet is a very bad idea.

 

For one thing, I always feel depressed until I talk about it with someone. Then I get better. Only if I didn't get better would I consider meds.

Could it have something to do with testosterone? I know that in other animals' date=' testosterone levels can "prime" certain areas of the brain, perhaps this is happening here too?

 

Mokele[/quote']

It doesn't seem likely. As far as I know, no correlation has been found, and it does happen in females too. There seems to be an hereditary element; MZ twins of people with schitzophrenia stand a 50% chance of developing it themselves. But, there seem to be many other factors involved, largely environmental. One recent hypothesis suggests a virus that attacks the hippocampus. That would explain the sensory overload experienced by patients, but as yet there is no direct evidence for this. They are trialing antiviral drugs on schitzophrenic patients though.

 

Plus, whatever it is, it seems to involve dopamine, insofar as dopamine receptro antagonists are effective at controlling the positive symptoms.

Did the structural changes cause the mental disorder, or did the mental disorder cause the structural changes?

 

 

 

 

I don't think Depressed people have physically abnormal brains? any proof

No-one is born depressed and suicidal for no freason until external factors are intruduced,e.g untreated stress,emotional peoplems etc..If these problems are untreated ove some time it can lead to depression.Ther mind triggers off bad experiances which affects the brain chemistry.I don't know of reoprts where the brain structure itself chanages,but trying to bring the thought process back to normal and chemistry function is very difficuly.I know how hard it is to try to be yourself again because when you are depressed for so long you forget who the person you were before and your thinking changes

"No-one is born depressed and suicidal for no reason until external factors are introduced"

 

But there does seem to be some genetic pre-disposition to depression. Not everyone responds to depressing external factors by becoming clinically depressed. There are many factors, and the role of these factors appears to vary from case to case.

sorry about the accidental repeat posts.If I knew a way to delete them before being given a warning that would be a good idea.

 

You could be right their EwenM about family genetics playing a part.

But don't you think the child who becomes depressed like their parent is not really a genetic thing but more like the child being around their parent copying there emotions

which leads them to adopt their depressive characteristics.

 

like sometimes you will see family members adopting the same expressions of the other.Facial expressions,hand movements,body language.Or when you train a parrot for example,they will copy what trainer is doing because theie mind has been predisposed to it over time

I fear it is the old Nature vs Nurture question in disguise once again.

 

The latter being favoured by the afflicted because it gives them hope for relief without having to admit they are defective (in a mechanical sense)

 

Just diverting course slightly to the question used to hook people into this thread…why do you suppose Tom Cruse decided to speak out about this particular topic at this particular moment.

Usually these things are of interest mostly to those with a vested interest in the topic.

 

Apologies in advance for calling anyone mentally defective.

It doesn't seem likely. As far as I know, no correlation has been found, and it does happen in females too. There seems to be an hereditary element; MZ twins of people with schitzophrenia stand a 50% chance of developing it themselves. But, there seem to be many other factors involved, largely environmental. One recent hypothesis suggests a virus that attacks the hippocampus. That would explain the sensory overload experienced by patients, but as yet there is no direct evidence for this. They are trialing antiviral drugs on schitzophrenic patients though.

 

Plus, whatever it is, it seems to involve dopamine, insofar as dopamine receptro antagonists are effective at controlling the positive symptoms.

 

Interesting. But if it's viral, why does it strike so often at the same age?

 

I'm thinking regulatory genes, myself. Perhaps something gets turned on by a stimulus of some sort at that age (maybe even infection), and that produces some form of defective protien that, in turn, affects dopamine levels somehow. Perhaps this gene is somehow easier to turn on at that age, or naturally turned on in males at that age?

 

Just speculating...

 

Mokele

There's the rub. Personally, I'm not sure about the viral hypothesis. I would go with you on regulatory genes, myself, and certainly some genetic/environment interaction. Something genetic is providing a strong propensity, but on it's own, that's not enough. It needs some kind of trigger too, and nobody seems to know exactly what that is.

 

Funny thing about the dopamine. They use dopamine receptor antagonists to control the positive symptoms, but the brain compensates by producing more receptor molecules. Eventually, the same levels of dopamine are getting through as before (they can't increase the dose of DA antagonist without causing Parkinsonian symptoms), but the positive symptoms don't return. Bizarre, ain't it?

I don't think Depressed people have physically abnormal brains? any proof

low seratonin levels are often linked with depression.

in some cases, this can be because the seratonin receptors are genetically deformed.

most of the time though, the seratonin receptors were either affected by drugs, or changed to cope with external influences.

 

 

i have a friend who's doctor prescribed prozac... as a cure-all.

with it, he was emotionless, lacked a sex drive, and had waves of depression, but he was ignorantly blissful.

without it, he was aggressive, and hated his parents, but he had a huge sex drive, and a huge motivation to improve himself.

since then, he's tried to lower his prozac dose, and experiment with other prescription drugs. everything he tries digs him deeper, and reduces his ability to help himself... although it's better than the prozac.

i'm trying to get him to stop taking drugs altogether.

he said he's tried it before (but has a hard time describing what happened), and whenever he brings it up his doctor says "remember the last few times you tried this?" i wish i could visit his doctor with him....

well,a lot of Doctors talk crap.I've been told by them,it's nothing to do with a defective brain and it's all brought on by yoursef and praying is the only cure and another say it is both a mental and physical problem.

I've tried these seretonin drugs,complete waste of time.Increasing seratonin won't cure it.

 

I still believe depression is all in the mind,once the person figures out what their underlying emotional problem is and why they are sad the depression will go.This is a curable illness if you have the mental attitude to fight it

I agree with some cases sure, but really bad bouts of depression render the person unwilling and unable to "fight it". they`re really quite helpless.

The brain is not effected any differently whether someone has one bout of depression or many throught their life.What causes the relapse into depression again is when the person relives how they felt in their mind when they had their previous episode.It's just a cycle that's hard to break.

Even if depression is caused by an abnornality in brain chemistry,it doesn't mean

it is permanent and not reversable on it's own

in serious depression, you can`t just "make up your mind" and make it go away though or "fight it" because it attacks the will to do that.

 

therein lies the problem, and so medical intervention is needed to allow that person to become more "receptive" to these ideas.

in serious depression, you can`t just "make up your mind" and make it go away

 

You could have a point there me old boy

I must admit, that there WAS a time I used to think that way though, as I`de gotten myself out of what I`de considered "serious" depression without counciling and even stopped taking the drugs, it took a few years but I did it.

 

then quite recently, I met an old aquantance that WAS seriously depressed, THEN I knew what others were trying to explain to me about it, now I just put mine down to a Bad patch in life by comparison.

well,I've had this for like 11 years now and consider it quite serious.

It doesn't seem to be going either.I try to convince myself it is just how I think,but maybe I need a brain transplant.My doctor has me down as moderately depressed and anxious and gave me some pills which didn't do a lot