Bettina

I think that time did not start at the Big Bang. Perhaps our time started at the BB, but some theories like the Big Bounce allow our time to extend before the BB. In any case, if cause and effect still holds before the BB, then there had to be an order of events, which would be a form of time.

My sentiments exactly.

Bettina

It concerns me that you make noises some times as if you fear disapproval. I think I told you quite some time ago that you shouldn't worry. I don't necessarily like what you say but you ask questions, seem better than average well informed, are not a smart-ass, seem sincere, modest, open to learning etc.

 

So why should I or anyone bug you simply because they disagree? I'm not a Linde-style multiverse fan (never heard anyone propose a way how it could be tested) but if you start a good thread, and bring in information/links, and get other people interested, then more power to it.

Thank you for the links Martin only it's not disapproval I fear but nastiness. I don't handle that well. Anyway, I just never liked the limit that is placed on understanding. Just because we may never see beyond our big bang doesn't automatically give rights to those that say there is nothing beyond our big bang. That really bugs me. Anyway, I will look at those links you gave me but I'm pretty busy. I gave up my special ed career and enrolled in a nursing college. I've had some kind of calling.

Always,

Bettina

That's what she meant by the "whole universe": dark matter, dark energy, and the part of the universe that is beyond our visible limit (what Arch2008 was referring to). All this came into existence with the Big Bang.

 

As far as we know, there is no more to the universe than what appeared at the Big Bang. Lots of speculation about other "universes" in some larger "metaverse", but no data and, worse, no way to get any data. Linde is one of the better speculators, but that's all it is.

 

 

 

No. It's pure speculation that there is any form of "greater universe". So you cannot state this as the fact that you do. Anyone familiar with the state of knowledge is going to hand you your head.

Speculation is what makes science interesting so I don't mind having my head handed to me. And, when I hear the statement.. As far as we know there is no more to the universe than what appeared at the Big Bang" it gives me the mental image that the Big Bang created everything there is and there was nothing before or after. It sounds to final.

Oh well, I think I'll read a little Andre Linde. Thanks for the input.

Bee

@ Lucaspa... I knew that part already. I just want to know what she meant by the "whole" universe and how it relates to this question..

So,[Martin] could I get away with saying that the Big Bang was an event that "created" our region of the greater universe that was NOT created along with our BB?

@Pioneer... Thanks for giving me something to think about.

@Arch2008... Yes it is. I have the mp3 and that Pdf file and thanks for the correction to 1/1,000,000th of the whole universe.

So, by the "whole" universe did she mean the portion that was created by our big bang and by "whole" she did not include the greater universe?

Bettina

Lucaspa...

Wow.. It took only 6 months for a reply. As a women I should hang up on you... Just kidding.

A couple of things. Although I'm very Christian like in the kind of life I lead, I don't believe in any God. The God particle was just my way of inserting an outside observer for a hypothetical question. Anyway, I'm at first year college for nursing which has nothing to do with astronomy and cosmology but I've always been looking for answers to the universe.

At the bottom of the science forum page there is a trash can. Right above that is the Pseudoscience and Speculations section and just a hair above that is where I live. I just wanted you to know that before I ask a question.

In a different post Martin said he wouldn't have a problem with me stating:

So,[Martin] could I get away with saying that the Big Bang was an event that "created" our region of the greater universe that was NOT created along with our BB?

So, with that I was reading another of Martin's posts which had a link (below) attached and I listened to Pamela Gay describe the universe. I found her bland but still interesting. She said.....

We can only see 4% of the "viewable" universe which in turn is only one ten thousandth of the "whole" universe.

So... What did she mean by the "whole" universe?

http://www.astronomycast.com/astrono...-the-universe/

Bee

Hmmm.... funny, but when I look into my mirror now, I see 11 of me.

Bee

...."pseudoscience" and "speculations" should be separated.

I agree with you 100%. It separates the wacko from someone who has an interesting idea.

Bee

...So although we live in a Universe, we are only aware of the Visible Microverse (the visible universe). Our space/time might only be a Microverse in the larger Universe.

That's exactly what I believe. I stated it as our universe being part of a larger void but I like this better. So, could I get away with saying that the BB was an event that "created" our region of the greater universe that was NOT created along with our BB? If yes, then I can agree that nothing is outside the universe.

Martin?

Bee

Sorry if you already knew all this, I'm bored at work and just fancied rattling on about something.

I'm not a scientist nor am I in this field. I'm just a simple person who reads, dreams, and tries to make sense of why some scientists say "this is all there is" while others do not. What I've learned is that the "universe" is a loose term that can only describe the "observable" portion that we see and the unobservable portion that we can only infer.

I just have a problem with the term "all there is" so when someone asks (like the OP) what is outside [our] universe the correct answer....to me... is "we don't know". There could be big bangs going on everywhere in the unobservable void and we wouldn't know.

If you like balloons, think more balloons.

Bee (not the only one)

Why?

Because it's not impossible which leaves the cat in limbo. And since some scientists tend to believe that it's closer to the truth than not then I'll stay a multiverse/bubble theory girl.

Bee

I never said the endless void was part of this universe and no, we cannot interact with it any more than those living in this soap bubble can interact with those living two soap bubbles over.

Also, the universe to me, means ours.

This is what I believe but I don't want the admins to push joshuam168's thread to pseudo science on my account so delete my posts when I've ventured too far from mainstream...

Bettina

...what is outside the universe?

An eternal void full of the components needed to birth universes like ours. There, I said it.

Bettina

lol. i drew, but mine wasn't quite as simple (took ages to find the right positioning):

 

http://FantasticContraption.com/?designId=266503

 

 

 

beatcha

 

http://FantasticContraption.com/?designId=266848

Sorry..... but this person actually put a "lander" on "Mars" Use the back button to view it.

http://fantasticcontraption.com/?designId=216447

Bettina

(PS - Bettina, I'm going to kill you for showing me this game... I have an mcat on tuesday!)

(I like your design btw...)

Bee

I thought this was pretty cool....

http://fantasticcontraption.com/

Bee

Is it permissible to reply with String Theory based answers?

You made me laugh today. Thank you.

Bettina

I do not doubt nor deny the existence of the Radical Islam's strong anti-West and their dangerous control over the education and indoctrination of their youth, but I seriously doubt the West's ability to control this problem by the use of armed conflict.

 

The best we can do, in the the long run, is strengthen domestic security and keep our economy strong, so we can show them that progressive democratic/capitalistic ideals are far stronger than fanatical religious extremism.

 

This is how we ultimately 'took care' of the communist 'problem' in Soviet Russia and elsewhere.

I can't agree with that. One reason communism fell was because they simply ran out of money to support the arms race with the west. This, to me, was the leak in the dike.

What is scary is that you can't compare communist ideology with religion. The USSR had nuclear weapons, but didn't use them with it's "war" with the west. I can't say the same for a country run by fanatical religious extremists. If they get hold of a nuclear weapon, they will use it as directed by their God.

So, no, you can't let that sleeping dog lie.

Bee

Question: if the universe was expanding into something, wouldn't that just be part of the universe?

Depends on what you mean by universe. When I hear the word universe, I take it to be our observable universe and nothing else. This would be expanding into something which is infinite and was always there. Call it the "void", "multiverse", the "nothing", etc.

Pure speculation on my part. but it's what I believe.

Bee

I still see Omega larger than one (1.0175) although slightly less than last time. (1.031). Is this correct?

Are they going to come right out and say for sure that our universe is flat?

Bee

Hi Lucaspa,

What I'm about to say really belongs in the speculation or trash section and I feel a bit stupid saying this but I just want to share what has been on my mind ever since I began reading books on Cosmology. It may be child like so I want to apologize up front and be done with this once and for all but I just have to say it. No flames please...

OK, when the god entity snapped his finger (in my question to Martin) and made our universe with all it's matter, space and time, disappear, he wasn't left in an empty dark void unable to see anything. What he did see, with his god like eyes, were other universes each with their own space, time, and matter. Some were separate from others but some were joined together, and there were universes as far as his eyes could see.

To carry this further, he snaps his finger again and removes all of the other universes until there is nothing left. Now, he is really alone, floating in the mother universe that is infinite and without end. Travel in a straight line and you will never come back to where you started. You go on forever. This is the last doll of the Russian set and it's where everything comes from. It was never created nor was there any expansion. It was always there. It's the final nothing that is, when everything is removed.

Now, with everything gone, the god entity waits. He sees something pop into existence and pop out just as fast. As he looks around, he sees more of these god particles popping in an out until finally, after what appears to be an eternity, one pops in, stays longer than it was supposed to, becomes unstable, then bang.... a bubble takes shape and a universe is born. In time, another bubble is born, then another. Some spawn from one another while some remain singular in a different part of the mother universe.

The mother universe is without end. Carry this out as far as you would like....

I like physicists like Linde and especially Kaku.. who has been my favorite for some time now. His imagination is awesome. Oh well.... I said what I had to say.

Bee

Martin, please answer this wild question the best way you can..... Don't throw anything at me, just answer.

 

You are a God who cannot be destroyed. If you could snap your finger and make the universe disappear, what would you see as you looked around.

 

Bee

I wanted to clarify, that by "universe", I meant ours.

Bee

P.S... http://www.world-science.net/exclusives/060330_multiversefrm.htm

Martin, please answer this wild question the best way you can..... Don't throw anything at me, just answer.

You are a God who cannot be destroyed. If you could snap your finger and make the universe disappear, what would you see as you looked around.

Bee

Because to be "outside" in the normal sense means to have spacetime beyond the boundary. And spacetime means the 3 dimensions of length, width, and height. However, since the universe contains ALL the length, width, and height, there are none of those dimensions "outside" it.

So you're saying that our spacetime could never exist in a larger spacetime with it's own 3 dimensions? Why do some scientists speculate that our universe could be just one bubble of many.

Bee

Hi Mooey...

If I remember... The moon turns red because of the Earths atmosphere. At full eclipse, there is no direct sunlight so the only light it gets is the light that's passing through our atmosphere. The more atmosphere it has to go through, the more scattered the light becomes ending with just the red spectrum getting through. Not too sure why only red though...

Bee

Our utility company has raised rates twice since my last post in this topic. So, if we all use CFL's, less energy is used, less profit is made, and the rates go up?

Is this how it will be? Will burning one CFL cost so much we go back to candles? Will candles go up too?

Bee