Moontanman

Does anyone remember growing crystals on coal with household chemicals? i did it when I was a kid but I don't remember the recipe.

This is what i am thinking of.

http://www.crystalgrowing.com/recipes/blueing/blueing.htm

My first thought was to use it in a car to power an electric motor. Natural gas (methane) or propane are relatively abundant and methane can be made from bio-waste. It would make fueling a electric car easier and more efficient than a battery.

Didn't we just bail out the American Financial (banks, wallstreet investments and large industry) system to the tune of close to one trillion dollars spent almost immediately? Health care has to be at least as important as bailing banks who gambled with money they didn't really have.

ewwww I wrestled a troll, he confused me and won I feel dirty, I need a hot shower

It smelled like a week old fish from the beginning to me, lol

Everything falls at the same speed, regardless of how big or heavy it is.

 

Did you imagine the circles as I told you to?

When I said that everything didn't fall at the same rate i was trying to get gaff to see the idea of friction and how it effects things and that the gravity field of the earth is different from the gravity field of the sun. In a vacuum everything would fall the same in the same gravity field but this idea of different gravity fields plays to the heart of the matter, different planets travel at different speeds due to being in different places in different gravity fields, everything is relative.

A one pound lead ball dropped on the earth would fall differently than a one pound ball of Styrofoam. due to friction, friction is something gaff seems to want to ignore or invoke at his pleasure. An "airplane" can't continously orbit at 100 feet due to friction not because of some property of gravity.

The idea of why planets move faster or slower plays to how different masses accelerate in different gravity fields as well. a planet doesn't spiral into the sun because it is so massive and has no friction with space, they travel at different speeds because they are at different distances from thier primary.

Maybe I just don't understand what gaffs problem with gravity is, I'm beginning to confuse myself.

Michel - "duration = distance and infers motion" this is actually very profound and you deserve more recognition. Relativity theory does in fact require everything to be in motion otherwise it wouldn't exist.

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Moontanman- "Time would be a fundamental dimension" - in my opinion this is just about the most profound piece of original thinking I have come across on this forum and much nearer to reality than you are being credited with.

Thank you, I guess even a blind pig finds an occasional acorn.

Moontanman, you are not helping here.

You are right i am sorry, i can't take this seriously anymore

Please don't mix einstein with newton, im told einstein math is less acurate.

You've been misinformed

Mass is irrelevant, all things fall at the same speed.

Not true either.

WOW griff sounds a bit like centrifugal force. Gravity is the bending of space time by mass.

Gravity is a force, so everything effected by it must slow down whatever angle of travel.

 

If I fire a firework into the air at an angle it returns to the earth because of gravity.

 

If I fire the same rocket, do you honistly believe that the angle matters wether it returns to the earth? your saying that speed changes things and then things don't slow down ever.

Actually gravity is not a force, what is the source of griff energy?

I am curious gaff, how long ago do you think this instance of creation was?

Centrifugal force gaff, centrifugal force, not griff energy. nothing more need be said.

That I understand, so as gravity is a constant force, the planets should slow down.

If indeed gravity was the only thing affecting a planet it would fall directly int the sun.

how can something at a certain speed stop the object from ever slowing down because of gravity?

This has already been covered several times, i will not repeat it yet again.

Gaff' date=' I'll say this one more time, there is nothing to slow down planets but friction[/mp']

 

so gravity does not slow things down, the fast aeroplane in my last post will never hit the earth?

 

Please read the posts the people here are providing, then get back to us on any point we have not covered.

If the planets will never slow down then it's griff energy doing its thing, else it's gavity energy doing it's thing and one day the planets will spiral to the sun guaranteed!

Gaff, I'll say this one more time, there is nothing to slow down planets but friction, not enough friction to slow down planets over time scales that are meaningful to humans. so yes given enough time planets would indeed spiral into the sun but the sun and maybe even our universe will not exist long enough for this to happen.

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So what you are saying is a aeroplane flying around the planet at 1 meter only travelling at 100 miles an hour stoped it's engine will fall to the earth guaranteed.

 

But the same plane going at a very fast speed and turns off it's enging will never hit the earth?

Yes, if there was no air, and no mountains higher than 100 feet and the airplane was going fast enough it would "never" hit the ground. Of course if there was no air it would not be an airplane now would it?

if i jump i fall, how can going sideways at any speed stop me from EVER falling? EVENTUALLY as gravity is pulling i must slow down. This is where i just don't understand what you are saying.

Gaff, it's already been said, the centrifugal force of the motion of the planets prevents gravity from pulling them in.

Does the word "weightless" exist?

It does but it should be micro gravity instead of weightless

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I would think that as gravity is a constant force, this would be guaranteed.

Nope, the exchange of energy between both bodies is different if they rotate and orbit in different directions. In the case of the Earth and Moon, they will move apart, the earth's rotation will slow down till both orbit with one hemisphere always facing each other. This will take longer than the sun will exist so don't look for it any time soon.

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I would think that as gravity is a constant force, this would be guaranteed.

 

EVERYTHING i know of 1 meter above the earths surface will fall without power EVENTUALLY regardless of how fast it is moving.

Only because of friction gaff, only due to friction. If there was no air or mountains you could orbit at 1 Nano meter .

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How can they not slow down but i do when I jump?

This has been answered several times already gaff, i see no reason to do it again.

Nope. You're not listening. The Moon is actually getting farther away from Earth as it orbits.

 

Gravity doesn't slow down things in orbit, if they're in a circular orbit. They're going sideways, not up or down. It just pulls them into a circle.

Capt'n, actually gravity can slow things down under the correct circumstances, if the Earth were rotating retrograde or the moon was orbiting retro grade gravitational friction would cause the moon to spiral into the earth, as a matter of fact it would already have happened not long after the formation of the moon.

Then things everywhere are effected by gravity as stated by newtons law, so then EVENTUALLY the planets will spiral to the sun GUARANTEED!

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The orbital motions of the planets negate the pull of gravity, the sun will not exist long enough for the orbits of the planets to deteriorate significantly due to friction with gas and dust in space.

so in space, the ball spins FOREVER!?

For all practical purposes , yes!

Oh, I don't mean to turn Jupiter into a star. I mean converting a significant portion of its mass into energy. We use fission to ignite fusion in thermonuclear weapons. We use inertia as containment for certain fusion reactions. Jupiter has a lot of mass so a lot of inertia. Also it has hydrogen that is quite compressed already, especially at the core.

Yes but still not enough to initiate self sustaining nuclear reactions and turn Jupiter into a star.

if i spin a ball on a string here on earth, if i dont keep it spinning it slows down.

 

Why do the planets not slow down?

Because there is not enough friction in space to slow down planets.

Another way to look at it is if you could some how magically suspend your self in a box or space craft at 18,000 miles above the earth but be stationary with respect to the earth you would not float. you would still feel gravity, a much reduced gravity but gravity all the same. If your space ship and the earth were the only objects in the universe and you were 1 billion light years away but totally stationary in respect to the earth you would still feel a very very tiny pull from the earth, enough to eventually make you stick to the side of your space craft closest to the earth. Motion is what makes you float, not the absence of gravity.

So a fired bullet at a speed less than escape velocity receives a constant force from the earths gravity and falls back to the ground.

 

But a bullet fired faster than escape velocity still receives a force from earths gravity but is going too fast too be effected much by the gravity resistance and flyes off forever.

 

Gravity is a force so makes me fall. Why does the escaped velocity bullet not eventualy fall too?

Ignoring the friction of the air a bullet fired from a gun at normal "gun" velocities will arch up and over and hit the surface at the same speed it left the gun, gravity will slow it down as it achieves it's highest altitude but the speed will be regained as it falls back. A much higher muzzle velocity will allow the bullet to arch over and never hit the earth and stay in orbit, a higher velocity will allow the bullet to spiral away from the earth forever or at least until the suns gravity takes over and it goes into orbit around the sun. a much higher velocity and the bullet will escape he sun and go into orbit around the galactic core, even higher and it can leave the galaxy as well.

If you could fire a gun with 0 radial velocity these ideas will change some what but in the real world that would be if not impossible very unlikely.

Thats strange, so you fire a bullet at a speed below escape velocity and it slows down because of gravity.

 

No it slows down due to friction with the air, if there was no air a bullet would arch over and hit the earth at the same speed it had when it left the muzzle of the gun.

 

 

And if you fire a bullet faster than escape velocity it does not slow down and flyes off forever?

 

 

In a word, yes! Actually the cap't is correct, but it would go on forever or at least into orbit around the sun until it hit another object. This effect is not why a bullet slows down how ever and if the bullet was fired just below escape velocity when it reached a certain point it would return to the earth (ignoring any friction) and hit with the velocity it had when it left.

 

There so many assumptions here it is difficult to cover them all, any radial velocity of the bullet if it was less than escape velocity, would cause it to orbit the earth and not come back and hit the earth.