Moontanman

I've seen police officers handle very rude often abusive individuals, generally they took far more than I would personally.

I can't see any reason to be rude to someone who is simply trying to his job, as long as he treats me with a reasonable amount of respect he will get it from me.

My politics might generally be liberal but I am also civilized and feel like people do indeed have certain basic rights but so do police officers. They have a difficult job, often enforcing unpopular laws on people who are too stupid to to know holding their tongues and being polite will get you through more check points for things like drugs and alcohol than trying to insure your "rights".

(although the idea of a check point pisses me off big time)

If the police do get out of hand with me I would be the first insist on a supervisor and then a lawyer but trying to provoke a possibly tired and on his "last nerve" police officer is really stupid.

These are pretty good evidence against trusting the factual accuracy of alien UFO claims. 1) It looks like your typical "lights in the sky" meteorite. 2) As a craft, this cannot be how it actually looks -- the person inside should not be visible, or if it is actually intended to be an "open" ship, these people have no idea how nasty wind can be at supersonic speeds.

I think that if indeed this was supposed to represent a real space craft it is a cut away view to demonstrate there is someone inside the craft. it is not intended to show a real space craft but a stylized version of what the artist thought was going on.

We do the same thing when we draw stylized versions of airplanes, of course it could be the space craft are really not traveling that fast and are in fact gliding over the scene slowly.

Merged post follows:

My wife gave me a rather unique view point when i asked her what she saw in the above pic. She is not into UFOs as a skeptic or believer.

water≠sky

Yes, I can agree with that. Now look at this picture, as a totally independent picture. don't take into account where it came from or what it is supposed to be.

What do you see?

That's your prerogative, but I don't have the same view regarding an attempt to violate my civil rights. For me it clashes with the notion that people died preserving our rights, and to me it would be disrespectful to let someone trample them.

I'm not sure why showing a law enforcement officer some level of respect is allowing him to trample my rights. I treat them the same way I treat anyone else, I expect them to treat me with some respect as well but if i was in a position that called for the officer to suspect me for some reason giving him the finger would seem to be needlessly provocative in any situation.

If I really felt he was trampling my rights i would contact a lawyer and we would go to court, doing something disrespectful back to him seems childish and counter productive to me.

Just to make a point here, I didn't cherry pick, Moontanman, I took the offered site and linked the first three pictures I saw.

 

I didn't even skip... it's the first three.

Sorry mooeypoo, we were looking at different sites, the one I offered showed medieval paintings first.

Merged post follows:

this is the most reasonable discussion of the subject I have been able to find.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleocontact

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oannes#As_Oannes

Oannes (Hovhannes [Հովհաննես] in Armenian) was the name given by the Babylonian writer Berossus in the 3rd century BC to a mythical being who taught mankind wisdom. Berossus describes Oannes as having the body of a fish but underneath the figure of a man. He is described as dwelling in the Persian Gulf, and rising out of the waters in the daytime and furnishing mankind instruction in writing, the arts and the various sciences.

 

The name "Oannes" was once conjectured to be derived from that of the ancient Babylonian god Ea [1], but it is now known that the name is the Greek form of the Babylonian Uanna (or Uan) a name used for Adapa in texts from the Library of Ashurbanipal.[2][3] The Assyrian texts attempt to connect the word to the Akkadian for a craftsman ummanu but this is a merely a pun [2]. Scholars have long speculated that the name might ultimately be derived from that of the 8th century figure of Jonah (Hebrew Yonah). Bible critics have made the reverse claim, although the Hebrew name has the known meaning of "dove". [4]

 

Oannes was portrayed as a man wearing the skin of a fish.

 

Iosif Shklovsky and Carl Sagan cited tales of Oannes as deserving closer scrutiny as a possible instance of paleocontact due to its consistency and detail.[5]

It has honestly been many years since I delved very deeply into this stuff and i find that Erich von Däniken was conservative compared to the stuff out now. From what i read now this stuff has feed on it's self using it's self to reference it's self and now has mutated beyond any recognition of any real facts or even speculations. It's really sad, at one time I was almost a reasonable line of inquiry, now it's crazies pumping sunshine up the skirts of other crazies to the point it has no relevance what so ever to reality.

WOW maybe I should set up a site and hawk my theory, it's as good as anyone else's and just as based in fact and I could be a crazy too...

Well, there's that and then there's this guy: http://www.oregonlive.com/clackamascounty/index.ssf/2010/02/clackamas_man_exercises_free_s.html

 

Always nice to see someone standing up for our rights.

Most police officers I've had the misfortune to cross were quite polite and nice about it, I've seen them put up with stuff that if it was done to me someones ass would have been kicked. They catch quite a bit of hell due to unpopular laws and the occasional officer who really is an asshole.

But then again...

A good friend of mine was killed by a police officer in a traffic stop, the officer accidentally shot him at point blank range in the back of the head while he sat at the wheel of his car.

He had a history of problems with that police officer and the officer went scott free. No one was there to say what really happened. I think I'll continue to treat them with respect, deserved or not, i don't want a 9mm in the back of my head.

I cannot believe that aliens would closely resemble humans either but of course the conspiracy theorists say the people we meet as aliens are actually humans they have raised and trained (the reason for the late night baby stealing) if it was easy to see and the evidence was irrefutable then there would be no doubt and all would be revealed.

the idea is to see into the past via these images and some stories as well to get at a hidden truth. I'm not sure if there is a hidden truth or if the truth is even close to what has been proposed but i know if we dismiss the ideas out of hand then we will never know unless the aliens reveal themselves to us at some point.

Of course there are those who say this has already happened and the government has chosen to hide this from us.

I'd love to continue this as an intelligent discussion but I'll have to dig very deep to find any more intelligent material. there used to be some plausible if unlikely theories available but in recent years every crazy on the planet has been able to post his or her personal take on this and the ideas are seldom intelligent or even resemble any realistic credible possibility. I'll try to see if I can dredge up any of the older stuff but my google search today has turned up nothing but bull butter.

i still say the most likely IF is that aliens live in our solar system independant of planets, if they are here, if frogs had wings they wouldn't bust thier asses everytime the jump

I wouldn't be surprised if Arizona required the same; you could then preclude a search altogether by surrendering your weapon(s). But rulings have also found that the 4th amendment allows you to simply walk away, absent probable cause to detain you. i.e. you have the right to not talk to the police, and not talking to the police does not constitute probable cause.

I guess that's true but i am a lawful citizen of the USA, my respect for law enforcement would preclude such a disrespectful attitude.

Obviously there is no proof, and yes if it was aliens the ancients didn't know it, at least not publicly. some conspiracy theorists (i say it that way because it is indeed a conspiracy theory) say that it was known to some and the painting portrayed it secretly as in the tiny hard to see space craft or other hidden ways. I'm not sure I buy that but the images are hauntingly familiar to modern day UFO sightings and if they are connected the connection could have real meaning even if it wasn't aliens or gods. While it doesn't say they were good or bad it does seem to say something odd is happening.

Let's see. The human neurological tendency to anthropomorphize leads us to the 'men in the sky' from ancient times. What else could meteors be but the men traveling? Artists then put men in meteors. Not at all out of reach of Medieval men.

This is really reaching dude.

If there were little green men with rocket packs shooting ray guns, you might have a case.

So you really think aliens would be little green men with ray guns? How would you expect aliens to be portrayed?

looks like it could be a rock to me.

Really, you don't see the details the artist put in the rock? Why were the details put in, why is the man and the dog looking at the rock?

chances are, only the artist will ever know what it is, could be a rock could be a spacecraft, could be an attempt to cover up a blemish. there are many many many far more plausible explanations thant 'ZOMG ALIENS!!!one!!!'

Blemish? Painters cover blemishes with paint, not space ships, if it was blemish why is the man looking at it, why would the man the dog and the "rock" be in the deep back round of a painting of the Madonna?

But anyway the point is moot as it says nothing on whether aliens are goodies or badies.

The idea is the painter was trying to preserve the idea of something being behind the religious ideas that was not religion? Good or bad, if is was a lie then it had to be bad.

I think you may have created a monster, lol, i had to go around my elbow to get to my ass to do this but i figured out how to get the URL to the image, i had to go to properties to get it.

Really? Large fiery rocks waited until AFTER that painting to appear in the sky? For realzies? For serious?

 

Lots of meteors are portrayed in art, this is not a flaming rock by any means.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia

 

No thank you, i don't drink from that particular brand of koolaid, the face on mars was obviously in question but this object floating in the sky is a structured craft, the painter went through great pains to show it as such, it is not a simple rock in the sky. it has details no rock would have or need in a painting.

 

And if it is a UFO, why is it in the painting?

 

That would pretty much be the $64,000 question ya know,

 

the whole idea is that aliens are some how involved in or inspired religion.

Oh? You have pieces of a UFO?

It's a dark blur with highlighted edges. It could be any number of things. It could be an asteroid. It could be a representation of God(similar to that used on SMBC). I'm not an expert on Renaissance art, but I don't see any reason to suspect it's an alien craft.

Asteroid? Seriously dude, that would be as wild as an alien space craft since they had no concept of asteroid when that was painted. that picture when blown up looks like a craft of some sort to me, i can't see it as anything else, I'd admit it might be a stylized idea of a boat of some kind but to say it doesn't show a craft of some sort is really out there. And if it is a simple boat why is it in the sky?

Merged post follows:

I don't get the option of view picture when I right click on it, i have to down load it to my computer then to this site and then get the pic to put it in the thread.

I don't see any technology in that photo. How about you post images(using

 

So the object floating in the sky behind the maddona looks like a natural object to you?

 

(mostly because i'm not sure how to use the ' alt='>(mostly because i'm not sure how to use the '> thingy)

---

Merged post follows:

Consecutive posts merged

Hows this?

 

What technology? I didn't see any in those photos(aside from chariots, etc).

Then you didn't bother to look at the pictures, the most suggestive of technology is

The Madonna with Saint Giovannino

http://dudeman.net/siriusly/ufo/art.html

Many others are also suggestive of technology

Indeed. Probably used by humans as tools or discarded in trash heaps. I wonder if we've found any dragon bones.

 

Yet non-understood lights in the sky along with a neurological tendency to anthropomorphize things isn't 'evidence available to nearly all cultures of antiquity'?

 

What about stories and artwork all over the globe of humans interacting with dragons? It's widespread culturally, so it HAS to be true!

While i tend to believe the cultural aspect of UFOs is a more likely explanation, the depiction of what is obviously technology is odd. World wide the depiction of dragons differs drastically but it is always based in part on the portrayal of living animals, usually highly stylized snakes or lizards but how do you explain the portrayal of advanced technology and often identical images?

BTW yodaP "lights in the sky" is a low blow, skeptics often use this to ridicule the idea of UFOs even though many sighting are far more than just lights in the sky. If all UFOs were just lights in the sky then there would be no question they are alien space craft or not. I think it's wrong to portray UFOs as though they are ridiculous, they might be hallucinations or even hoaxes but they are not simply lights in the sky by any realistic definition.

Cowboy Dudley Hiibel is challenging a Nevada statute, NRS 171.123 (3), which says the police can require someone detained pursuant to a so-called "Terry stop" to identify themselves. The Terry stop—cooked up in a 1968 case, Terry v. Ohio—carved out an exception to the old Fourth Amendment requirement that people can't be searched and seized absent "probable cause" to believe they'd committed a crime. If "probable cause" signified the level of police commitment necessary for a meaningful relationship with a criminal defendant, Terry authorized the one-night-stand, giving cops the right to initiate quickie detentions—including a brief, unerotic frisk—of folks who are sort of suspicious but not suspicious enough to justify an arrest.

 

It should be noted that a stop & frisk under Terry is for weapons only — not contraband — in order to ensure the safety of the officer. Of course, if s/he finds an illegal weapon, that's cause for arrest. This being Arizona, though, that's not going to help, since they just passed the law making concealed weapons legal.

I'm not sure how it works in Arizona but in my state if you are carrying a legal concealed weapon and are confronted by the police you are expected to immediately inform the officer you are carrying the weapon and produce your permit.

It's an exercise in futility. We could even predict what kind of animals might live on the ocean floor and we're trying to predict what kind of Aliens may or may not live in ecosystems we have no data on?

 

This is pointless.

Not pointless, it is indeed speculation but not pointless, no one is trying to predict the type of aliens we are trying to form a hypothesis that explains why they would be here.

My hypothesis is if and I know it's a big IF but if aliens are here how and why are they messing with us? If they come directly from even the nearest star it would seem ridiculous that they just land and pick up some one on a dark country road and do an anal probe or in the past mess with us in a way that inspires religion but they never take over or really do anything.

Even 4.5 light years is along way to come to do something so obtuse or obscure. i think that if they are here they are colonizing the solar system via artificial habitats build from the resources available here. they have been here for thousands of years at least and have no use for planets and their concern with us is the idea that we might eventually come out into space as they have and then they will be forced to interact with us. so they study us, to see if they can manipulate us and how to best interact with us.

Maybe religion is the way they hope to control us at some point and the religious teaching they have handed down are so they can at some point claim to the the legions of god to keep us under control. possibly their own morals prohibit them actually killing us all so this is a better way to control us.

This is more reasonable than the idea they would just take over the Earth from us. It's unlikely the Earth would be usable to them for the reasons already given in this thread.

Merged post follows:

Dragons are in cultures all over the globe. Does that mean they're real too?

Actually no, dragons are the result of evidence available to nearly all cultures of antiquity (huge bones) and the way the human minds works in all cultures to make similar imaginary symbols

(this also happens to be my favorite theory of why all cultures have all seen objects/gods/angels/demons in the sky but not part of this thread)

Mooeypoo, seriously, you picked the absolutely least convincing pics out of all those pics. You have done what most skeptics do, they cherry pick the data to show the least convincing reports and ignore or gloss over the really convincing stuff.

Much like the people who say all UFO reports and or pics are either nothing but lights in the sky or so good they have to be fake. There is no way to win!

At the very least the images of a saucer or hat shaped objects is either the product of some sort of imagery the human mind makes up across both time and culture or it represents some real objects common to all those times and cultures. It is amazing how those hat shaped objects show up in art from cave drawings to medieval art as well but the hat shaped objects are not even close to being the most convincing objects of antiquity.

You ignored the medieval art work that clearly shows some sort of technology, the cave painting are images on top of images, it's difficult to say for sure which images are connected with others or clearly different images painted over others.

The images you chose to show are among the least impressive and clearly could be almost anything. others how ever are not so easily shunted away into the category of seeing what you want to see.

try these

The Madonna with Saint Giovannino

The Crucifixion

Glorification of the Eucharist

from this link

http://dudeman.net/siriusly/ufo/art.html

They may indeed be some sort of coincidence but I don't see how they can be dismissed completely, especially "The Madonna with Saint Giovannino"

Did you check out those paintings in the link I provided? Some of them are really impossible to explain and the connection between them and religion has to be more than coincidence!

I really need a high speed connection!

I've often wondered why i get so much pleasure out of being a Dom. My submissive gets off on being submissive as well but if I were to accidentally really harm her it would take away all the pleasure for me. Why does the domination have to both pretend and the sub has to be willing for me to enjoy it? Really forcing someone or hurting them would destroy me but the pretend is very erotic.

Well there are some fairly universal things. Mankind has always wanted to fly. There have always been UFO's (obviously). Mankind has always believed in entities more powerful than men. It's not much of a stretch to go to flying, powerful, supernatural humanoids. And they don't even need to exist for that.

If the medieval art showed men with wings I'd say you have a good point but the depictions would seem to show advanced technology where none should have existed. Why would these people think of flying saucers or other depictions of what looks much like technology?

Which is more likely, that everyone on Earth had a global communication network, so that everyone was able to share their similar creation stories and those about the flying sky people...?

 

That people a round the world were actually witnessing and recording similar events...?

 

OR

 

That everyone decided to record the same 'lie', without any connection between them...?

 

---

 

Here's a better game.

 

Which is more likely, that ALL religions are based on the same single lie, that "God exists in Heaven(s)."

 

OR

 

That we've just misinterpreted what "God" truly is?

Any way you look at it there is better evidence than creation myths.

http://dudeman.net/siriusly/ufo/art.html

While It's impossible to know for sure Kings idea is not as silly as easter eggs. Aliens if they exist almost certainly come from another star (this ignores the idea of inter dimensional travel or time travel) if aliens interacted with humans and caused some of our notions about gods, demons, fairies, or other beings, then the question becomes where did they come from and why do they have anything to do with us at all?

I'll enter this hypothesis, Aliens are here in our solar system, they have been here for thousands if not millions of years. we can make some suggestions about them, if they exist.

They came here by slow boat technology, no FTL star ships, if they can do that there is no reason for them to be here or interact with us to begin with.

They do not colonize planets or at least our planet for what ever reasons but they do use the resources in our solar system.

They inhabit artificial habitats they build using the resources in our solar system.

The reason they do study us and manipulate us on occasion is because they are concerned about our progress and how that might effect them.

This explains lots of things that other wise have no explanation.

UFOs, if alien space ships do visit the Earth the main reason often asked is why? Why travel light years to pick up some redneck on a back road and do an anal probe on him or her?

It would make no possible sense if they had to travel light years to visit the earth (unless star travel is even easier than on Star trek, lol) If star travel is even a fraction as hard as we think it is then there is not reason for UFOs to visit us. I know most everyone things UFOs are totally bullshit lights in the sky crap but not all are, some are really inexplicable even with a huge amount of data. Not all are he said she said type events.

This could also explain some historical things that suggest UFOs as real, everything from cave painting to medieval art depicting UFOs. Some of that stuff is really difficult to explain.

Some religious writings, as King suggested, do suggest some contact with unusual beings. The real question has always been why. Why would aliens, even from the nearest star, come here and seemingly do nothing but **** with our heads?

If they are inhabitants of our solar system and not particularly comfortable with wiping us out (as we might think really advanced beings would not be) and have no real interest in our planet they might study us because they suspect that eventually we will be out in space and avoiding us will become increasingly harder to do.

They can easily avoid us detecting their transmissions by using many technologies even we use.

So the question is, if the evidence of aliens is real then why, and the why is they are here but colonizing the asteroids or other small bodies in our solar system by building their own artificial colonies. And their interest is us is their own self interest.

If the evidence of aliens is real the only other possible explanation is the Earth has unbeknown to us spawned another civilization in the distant past and they are still here in colonies around the solar system.

I know, lots of ifs and assumes but it is a place to start.

Ok, I stuck my neck out, now chop it off....

Merged post follows:

Easter is celebrated on every continent, including, I believe, Antarctica.

Yes but the culture that originated it has spread it around, it was at one time an isolated school of thought.

Quite so. There would be some difficulties(I.E, food, raw materials, etc [which has been oddly overlooked by some members as a reason to stop on a planet]), but that can be limited to some extent as seen below.

This a pretty big assumption considering how different even very similar biologies could be. If the other planet had even a small difference food would be an unlikely thing to get from the planet. On the earth there are organisms that use arsenic in place of phosphorus, unusual on the earth but if it was turned around on the other planet all "food" would be deadly to us. Chirality is another possibility, reverse that and no food. Lots of possibilities for failure so planets would be an unlikely source of food and any other supplies would be easier to get from asteroids or kuiper belt like objects.

Here's where I'm not sure I agree. IIRC, accelerating a constant 1g(which would be optimal since it would provide Earth gravity allowing farming and minimizes bone density/immunity issues from lack of gravity) would mean relativistic speeds very quickly. We could reach the nearest system in 10-15yr earth time, but it would be more like 4-5yr ship time.

 

Accelerating at 1g, then, would let us have a much shorter trip and would let us have a more terrestrial lifestyle en route.

Accelerating at one G would be great but with current or even predicted technology this is highly unlikely.