I recently came upon an oldish (2015) "physorg" article, that some may like to discuss......(The title by the way, is the title of a book by Jimena Canales)

The artlcle...

https://phys.org/news/2015-05-science-historian-story-einstein-dangerous.html

Two of the 20th century's greatest minds, one of them physicist Albert Einstein, came to intellectual blows one day in Paris in 1922. Their dispute, before a learned audience, was about the nature of time - mostly in connection with Einstein's most famous work, the theory of relativity.....

extracts:

The philosopher in the title, and Einstein's adversary that day, was Henri Bergson, a French philosopher who was much more famous at the time than the German-born Einstein.

Einstein quickly dismissed the philosopher's criticism. To an audience that day of mostly philosophers, he made the incendiary statement that "the time of the philosophers does not exist."

It was Einstein's ideas that gained prominence, however, in part because later research only reinforced the science of relativity, but also because Bergson was effectively discredited by scientists, Canales said. Outside of philosophy, Bergson has been largely forgotten and is rarely even mentioned in Einstein biographies.

Being against science in the modern world, "makes no sense," she said. "Clearly we should be for science."
much more at link.............................

the book and the author..................

https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691173177/the-physicist-and-the-philosopher

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The article concludes....But we also need to think about science critically, Canales said. "We're not taught to see science as it really is, as it really is practiced, as it really is done." She said she hopes her book might help scientists and others understand the place of science "in more realistic terms."

It's this final bit I'm having trouble to accept. Why aren't we taught to see science as it really is? and as it really is practised? I see the results of how it is and how it is practised everyday. Or have I been around science forums for too long? 😉

My views/opinions on philsophers and philsophising is well known  and essentially aligns with the Lawrence Krauss and Neil Degrasse Tyson interpretations and views, and can be summed up with the quote that science is what we know:philsophy is what we don't know by Bertrand Russell.

Hi Moontanman. 

I have only watched the first video thus far, and what I do and always have supported is the further investigations into the small percentage of those UFO's/UAP's that have no known explanation at that time. 

I also have certainly not gone into this subject with as much vigour as you have and am really only aware of a few of the more prominent ones. Certainly the couple highlighted in the first video, and the much discussed Nimitz sightings, do not really raise my interest too much, or change my feelings that at this time, we have no "extraordinary evidence" of Alien visitations or contact. To my mind, so far the most unexplainable incident remains that of  the Story of Children in Zimbabwe Encountering a UFO and Alien beings. I would certainly like to see more official investigations into that incident.

My general feelings though have not changed, in that as a great man once said, "ëxtraordinary claims, require extraordinary evidence", and the fact that the two prohibitive aspects preventing Alien/interstellar/galactic content, are time and distance.

https://phys.org/news/2022-05-congress-ufos-extraterrestrials.html

1 hour ago, MigL said:

How does this pertain to the OP, the legality of alchol.
Seems to be more of a political commentary; and off topic.

This will make you happy........

https://www.livescience.com/mars-doorway-not-for-aliens

The 'doorway' seen on Mars is not for aliens. Here's how it really formed.

No, this is NOT a doorway for Martians. Although the internet erupted on Thursday after a photograph from NASA's Curiosity rover appeared to show an "alien door," experts are pretty sure it's just a natural feature of the Martian landscape.

"This is a very curious image," British geologist Neil Hodgson, who has studied the geology of Mars, told Live Science. "But in short – it looks like natural erosion to me."

Curiosity snapped the image with its Mast camera ("Mastcam" for short) on May 7, and it was released by NASA later in the week. 

more at link..............................

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reminds me of........

11 hours ago, beecee said:

Practice makes perfect? Men traditionally are generally more sport oriented then women, and generally experience far more competition which has been handed down through the evolutionary ages, and obviously are generally larger and stronger.

9 hours ago, StringJunky said:

I think it's a case of men have had more opportunities to play sport and was less culturally acceptable until more recently.

I think that is part and parcel of what I was saying. 

Men will obviously be better at some sport, then women, simply because of their generally greater strength and size. They may also in other sports be more skilled, simply for the reasons I have stated in experience, and also opportunities.

Womens Rugby League, Union, and Soccer are becoming a regular thing now in Australia. In fact in junior Rugby League girls and boys play together in competition up until about the age of 10 or so.........

https://www.playrugbyleague.com/laws-of-the-game-community/junior-league-laws-6-12s/

https://www.playrugbyleague.com/laws-of-the-game-community/junior-league-laws-6-12s/

We also have Rugby League (the greatest game of all) played by those with disabilities......https://www.nswrl.com.au/competitions/community-and-affiliates/nsw-physical-disability-rugby-league/

On 4/10/2019 at 3:25 PM, rangerx said:

In America it seems it's more about individualism and entitlement than common sense and public safety.

Ahh yes, we in Australia call those that push this so called entitlement and individual rights issue with guns, drugs, no mandatory injections, etc etc "snivel libertarians". 

The same snivel libertarians that are the first to call the police or authorities, when something goes amiss in their lives.

38 minutes ago, MigL said:

I wish it had been three years since th last shooting incident,unfortunately, these happen on a regular basis, and nothing ever changes.
Buffalo is a little close to home, and I knw quite a few decent people there in my younger years; the 'crazy' has spread all over.

In Sydney at this time, we have had an outbreak of gun violence and killings. The guns are obviously illegal and the killings are a tit for tat thingy with opposing bikie/drug syndicate orginisations.  https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-12/gangland-power-struggle-fuelling-violence-in-nsw/101058848

While a police taskforce has been in operation in trying to contain these tit for tat killings and the increasing possibility that an innocent bystander may be an unattended victim one day, many are of the opinion that we should let them simply kill each other off.

On the continued American mass killings and gun availability, isn't this due in main to your NRA? How can such an orginisation become so powerful? It seems to me that it is these "snivel libertarians", that cling to the old west days, that are running America? Or is it because, (as I would guess most likely) that many of your senators and government officials are also members of this NRA?

On 5/15/2022 at 8:20 AM, zapatos said:

Makes me wonder if tides could indeed affect tectonics.

Probably a minimal effect.

I did find this though..............................

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0012825220302257#:~:text=If the tidal forces influence,of the baselines of Figs.

Tidal modulation of plate motions:

Abstract:

While mantle convection is a fundamental ingredient of geodynamics, the driving mechanism of plate tectonics remains elusive. Are plates driven only from the thermal cooling of the mantle or are there further astronomical forces acting on them? GPS measurements are now accurate enough that, on long baselines, both secular plate motions and periodic tidal displacements are visible. The now >20 year-long space geodesy record of plate motions allows a more accurate analysis of the contribution of the horizontal component of the body tide in shifting the lithosphere. We review the data and show that lithospheric plates retain a non-zero horizontal component of the solid Earth tidal waves and their speed correlates with tidal harmonics. High-frequency semidiurnal Earth's tides are likely contributing to plate motions, but their residuals are still within the error of the present accuracy of GNSS data. The low-frequency body tides rather show horizontal residuals equal to the relative motion among plates, proving the astronomical input on plate dynamics. Plates move faster with nutation cyclicities of 8.8 and 18.6 years that correlate to lunar apsides migration and nodal precession. The high-frequency body tides are mostly buffered by the high viscosity of the lithosphere and the underlying mantle, whereas low-frequency horizontal tidal oscillations are compatible with the relaxation time of the low-velocity zone and can westerly drag the lithosphere over the asthenospheric mantle. Variable angular velocities among plates are controlled by the viscosity anisotropies in the decoupling layer within the low-velocity zone. Tidal oscillations also correlate with the seismic release.

6 hours ago, geordief said:

I think they were talked about but were not considered to be likely to actually exist..

The first BH candidate was Cygnus X-1. Simply put, one would need to be able to describe the observed action of the accretion disk associated with it, and the fact that matter was appearing to disappear into nothing....BH, or a gravitationally completely collapsed object was the best scientific theory we could have. Considering that a BH of sorts was also possible under Newtonian mechanics, called a Dark Star and proposed in the late 1700's by a bloke called John Michell.

3 hours ago, MigL said:

When you see the results of months, if not years, of work, to achieve something that most thought was impossible, you just can't help getting excited.

Jocylin Russell and her little green men!

10 minutes ago, Intoscience said:

Why do males often have a higher skill level in some sporting practices than females? (this is a sincere question that I'm interested in learning the answer to)  

Practice makes perfect? Men traditionally are generally more sport oriented then women, and generally experience far more competition which has been handed down through the evolutionary ages, and obviously are generally larger and stronger.

9 hours ago, dimreepr said:

 

The WNRL (Women's National Rugby League) has become quite popular in the Eastern Australian states in recent times.

They played with great passion, skill and pride. I would have loved mixing it with some of them!!😉 

8 hours ago, dimreepr said:

 

Drunk or sober.

Instead of pontificating on my position and age, I would be more concerned with your own generally unworkable life philosophy, and that position never being able to be achieved, along of course with your condescending nature. That imo points to a wasted life. 

This was a joke told by the late, great Australian Prime Minister, Bob Hawke, after the winged keel Australian yacht won the America's cup for the first time ever.......

23 hours ago, studiot said:

Yes there is some transfer of energy but is it concentrated enough to cause tectonic action ?

No of course not. I was simply trying to add more information. Tetonic action is of course more due to the extreme pressures and temperatures deep within the Earth's crust and the convectional magma currents.

18 hours ago, MigL said:

Never tried VB, but I did like Fosters when it was first imported, Beecee.
It was crisp and refreshing, which I like since I drink beer to quench thirst ( not get drunk ).
When it became a local brew, it tasted like all the other Canadian beer, and I stopped buying it. Same happened with Carlsberg.

I tend to like beers brewed in the German tradition ( Heineken, Stella, Kronenberg, or even Tsing Tao ), not beers that require 'chewing'; sorry Stringy.

Despite the antics of Crocodile Dundee (alias Paul Hogan) and Fosters Lager, VB is the most popular in Australia followed I think by XXXX Gold. I still drink Fosters when VB maybe unavailable, but my Son drinks Asahi, (despite my threats to disown him 😉) an imported Japanese Lager. In recent times there is now a heap more variety with many imported types on the market.

40 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

Not again, no.

😅 If that's what makes you happy.

One of our greatest Prime Mnister's Bob Hawke was well known for being a drinker and was at one time when President of the ACTU (Australian Council of Trade Unions) photographed drinking a yard glass...

The big bloke to his left is imo Australia's greatest ever PM's Gough Whitlam. Bob Hawke on being elected then swore of drinking for the term of his prime ministership and was true to his word. 

"Mr Hawke explained why it was so important he gave up the beers.

“I said to myself, ‘If you are going to become prime minister of this country, you cannot be in a position where you can make a fool of yourself in front of the country’,” he said. “I

never had a drop for the whole period I was prime minister.”

https://www.news.com.au/national/politics/bob-hawkes-complicated-relationship-with-drinking/news-story/f1e3e06cc2d0826f30f6a8c4a7bd9cc3

The member's Bar in Parliament House......

21 hours ago, StringJunky said:

What temperature do you need to drink that at,  -14c?

If anyone served me a beer above 10C, I would throw it back at them...either Ale or Lager.

4 hours ago, TheVat said:

Though I have participated minimally in this thread, with brief comments on decriminalization, I would rather not be turned into a Straw Man, or attached to other posters' positions.  I have no problem with the rule of law, or control of harmful substances, be it leaded paint, horse dewormer, or crystal meth.   I was referring only to end-user decriminalization, which has mountains of evidence as an effective alternative to dumping sick people in prisons or letting them OD in gutters.  

AFN.  

I have already given token support for decriminalisation.

3 hours ago, Peterkin said:

FWIW - what Beecee alluded to wasn't my position.

Isn't it? You seem to want free reign on the legality and availability of drugs in society from where I am. But if I am wrong, then please explain yourself, in simple language, without any of your jibes or condescending, and I will gladly retract.

12 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

Aussie beer  needs to be cold to mute the taste of it.  English beer has to be made properly to be able to drink it at the temperature we do... it's not just about getting arseholed.  

You wish! 😁 

Full flavoured, full strength beer; the gentle fruitiness of the aroma compliments the sweet maltiness in the mouth which in turn balances perfectly with the clean hop bitterness of the finish.

A suggestion. In this age of political correctness, I recommend that we drop the name "Black Hole" to a more acceptable and correct title, such as "Gravitationally Completely Collapsed Object" or a GCCO ☺️

On 5/13/2022 at 6:31 AM, Kurious12 said:

The oceans it would seem have a lot of weight that bare down on the Earth's crust, what effect if any do this have on the crust? Also, did the oceans play a role in the creation of the Earth's tectonic plates?

Not sure if it has been mentioned yet, but the tidal buldge of the Ocean's when the Moon is overhead, is also actually slightly ahead of the overhead Moon, a result of the rotating Earth, and the fact that some of that energy is transferred to the Oceanic tidal buldge via friction.

4 hours ago, Peterkin said:

They wouldn't. Thank you for answering for Beecee.

So, we can expect you from this moment on, to only comment on posts directly addressed to you?

5 hours ago, CharonY said:

Fair enough, I overlooked (or just forgot) that part. But yes, if we limit it to legal actions alone, which makes sense, it certainly is true. I do think the beecee's argument is based on social norms and pressures though, before Dim just ran with it (as he often does).

Social norms (with regards to alcohol) yes. Pressures such as advertisements about "it's man's drink" and similar, probably could be. I saw somewhere where you don't like beer? That's OK, but next time, as we down under do...make sure it is VB and chilled. Pommies and other places I hear don't have it chilled. Nothing worse then a warm beer!! 😉

5 hours ago, Peterkin said:

It seems to me that either both or neither should be taken literally, not one of each - my preference would be neither.

And you would be entirely wrong.

5 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

It's good to have everyone's obsessions, political histories, ignorances and agendas cleared up, innit?

It's even better not to hide behind any political and/or philosophical bias. I have nothing to hide ol mate!

9 hours ago, dimreepr said:

I didn't twist your statement, I extended it to show where a conservative mentality could lead; and given the propensity of the elderly to become more conservative in their thinking, it's entirely reasonable to exclude them from a conversation that's got nothing to do with them; they've made it to retirement and their future entirely depends on how the youth are shepherded...

😅 You actually speak from a position of ignorance. Far from being conservative, I akways try and speak from a position of political neutrality, or perhaps irrespective of any political movement or position. As a union delegate as a young bloke, I was well in line to progress to organiser and further up the union ladder. Over time though, and not fully adherring to established union policy, I was by-passed. I have also been called a dirty rotten commo c***. And I assure you age has not diminished that. My moral standings havn't really shifted, and I still reject and abhore some of your philosophical positions, particularly on punishment, torture and of course the legality of current illegal drugs.

Instead of pontificating on my position and age, I would be more concerned with your own generally unworkable life philosophy, and that position never being able to be achieved, along of course with your condescending nature. That imo points to a wasted life. 

And of course,  for any Idiot to claim sarcastically stupidly or otherwise, that the elderly should not vote, shows the mentality of some, that believe that because they themselves  had moments of weakness in the past to dabble with this illegal crap, we should give everyone else that same choice, is selfish at best and criminal at worst. Sort of bringing as many as possible down to their level.

ps: And yes, you did twist my statement, to suit your own agenda.

7 hours ago, dimreepr said:

I haven't said it has, but surely it's clear that such thinking can lead to law's that train the young, the Hitler youth for example...

Every slope leads to the bottom, not every argument does...

But unlike you, and your philosophy, I have some sympathy towards the Hitler youth, rather then the monster Hitler himself. 

7 hours ago, Peterkin said:

So there must, somewhere, be a poster or article falsely claiming that drug prohibition doesn't work. Beecee challenged the various examples given for propaganda in favour of prohibition and won't produce a counter-example. I didn't expect him to. But I also didn't expect Covid protests to be enlisted in favour of drug laws. It's a surprising ol' world.

Let me refresh your memory of how this furphy you seem so obsessed with started..

5 hours ago, TheVat said:

Really, I'm just trying to find a broader perspective on the idea that nothing should be criminalized while much can be recognized as harmful and worthy of allocating therapeutic resources towards. 

4 hours ago, Peterkin said:

Amen!

You then went on and said......

4 hours ago, Peterkin said:

In fact, the voters mostly know only what they're told. Mount a scary enough propaganda campaign and they'll approve the prohibition of anything.

I replied..........................

16 hours ago, beecee said:

Or conversely mount a fabricated propaganda campaign against prohibition and the furphy of government control, and some, (the more gullible) will approve of being able to do what ever we want.

And then your obsession started. Much of your claims against prohibition were personal thoughts and imo no more the propaganda to suit your agenda. Another relevant one was with regards to  a poll in WA confined to that state, and confined to school kids. I pointed out the short comings in that poll.

Then with regards to your's and TheVat's idea about reduced or no governments and government controls, I showed that to be the furphy of which it most certainly is......You dear Peterkin, and I, would probably not be here for a number of reasons if it were not for some form of government control or legislation. 

The furphy that  governments should not prohibit you from doing what you want, despite the chances of it being harmful to you, sounds strangely a lot like Jordan Peterson and Trump.

 I'm in favour of drug prohibition as it stands in my country. I see acohol as an accepted social necessity in all walks of life and society. I don't see any benefit of adding any other mind altering drug to that list. I could though support  decriminalisation for perhaps the milder forms such as cannibis. That's not the same as making it legal.

I challenge the various examples and articles claiming legalising of drugs that are currently illegal, as morally wrong. 

2 hours ago, Peterkin said:

How will that prove your claim?

 When will you ever get over this obsession you have with proof? Or is this just more of your usual condescending?

My claim of fabricated propaganda is  highlighted in the following.

2 hours ago, Peterkin said:

In fact, the voters mostly know only what they're told. Mount a scary enough propaganda campaign and they'll approve the prohibition of anything.

Because the road-kill of capitalism need to be punished even more than their addiction is already hurting; they need to be driven to crime, so that they can be arrested and punished again...? Or is there some lofty moral reason?

I think 'society' would rather have drugfiends sequestered anyplace, rather than on the streets where 'society' is walking and on the fire-escapes of 'society's apartments. 

2 hours ago, Peterkin said:

Sure. No problem. Now that you do understand, just bring proof - it doesn't have to be an air-tight case; just any little bit of evidence that anyone ever did

See above. 

5 hours ago, Peterkin said:

I'd like to see proof that this happened.

It appears to be the position that you are advocating.

Or conversely mount a fabricated propaganda campaign against prohibition and the furphy of government control, and some, (the more gullible) will approve of being able to do what ever we want.

And to (shock horror!!) repeat myself again, you have openly expressed your  philosophy against government control. You see what you need to accept is that perhaps in some circumstances there maybe too  much government control. See the difference? My apologies if that sounds condescending. I have yet to see any example of it though in this thread...I fully support government control on dangerous illegal drugs, and the fact that adding more to the legal list is defeating the purpose...The same way I support government control re the other situations I have mentioned and you have side-stepped...here's somemore...mandatory vaccinations in certain industries...mandatory lockdowns when deemed necessary.

1 hour ago, Peterkin said:

No need. I asked for one single example of false propaganda to turn people against prohibitions:

Sorry, I misunderstood. False propaganda? sure, your own sometimes naive political ravings for example...You know about the evils of authority, and such.

1 hour ago, Peterkin said:

I'd like to see proof that this happened.

It appears to be the position that you are advocating.

1 hour ago, Peterkin said:

I asked for one single example of a fabricated propaganda campaign against prohibition.

Going back around to the enumerate laws you approve of is not the answer.

Go look and check out many of your own posts.

1 hour ago, MigL said:

That sets a good example, and is commendable.
I have done the same for my nephew on a couple of occasions.

Me three for my own Son...then driven him back next day to pick up his car.

1 hour ago, joigus said:

The more mathematical-physicist type that talks there --Ziri Younsi-- states that all observations agree with Einstein's version of GR impressively well.

Great stuff! hope some of our anti relativists are taking note.

1 hour ago, joigus said:

The 'groundbreaking' part of it is more due to the achievement than to any big surprises, I think.

That's the way I read the report also.

The following is an interview with Professor Katie Bouman.

Bouman spoke with AFP shortly after the breakthrough announcement.

https://phys.org/news/2022-05-milky-black-hole.html

Why was it harder to see Sagittarius A*?—

"We collected the data for both M87* and Sgr A* in the same week in 2017, but it took us so much longer to make a picture of Sgr A* than M87*.

"Sgr A* has a lot of other things that are going on that make it a lot more challenging for us to make an image. We're actually observing the black hole through the plane of the galaxy. And that means that the gas in the galaxy actually scatters the image. It makes it look like we're looking at the black hole through, like, a frosted window, like in a shower. That's one challenge.

"But I would say the biggest challenge that we face is the fact that the black hole is evolving really quickly. The gas in M87* and Sgr A* is moving at roughly the same speed. But whereas it takes days to weeks to make a full orbit around M87*, for Sgr A*, it's evolving from minute to minute."

20 hours ago, TheVat said:

I would have thought it obvious that this was not my point.  Rather, some percent of crimes arise from drug trade and drug need, and these would decrease.  

OK, accepted.

23 hours ago, Peterkin said:

Isolated bits of evidence will do. One single

Government laws and prohibitions are necessary for any society to succeed and beneficial. I would have though that was obvious, but of course sometimes people are just blinkered.

Let me count the ways...traffic laws and prohibitions, DUI, compulsory super, compulsory health levies etc etc etc.

9 hours ago, dimreepr said:

If society "dictates as a social necessity in all walks of life" then surely it would be illigal to refuse to drink alcohol.

As usual you are playing games and being condescending. The statement stands.

9 hours ago, dimreepr said:

The very definition of an unworkable philosophy

The only unworkable societies are the one's you pretentiously push, over a few threads, as amply shown.

9 hours ago, dimreepr said:

Indeed, but I was following beecee's logic, as in, if society dictate's it's needed to allow society to work properly, then it's not unreasonable to show where that slope may lead.

Except you twist the meanings to suit your own agenda. I fully understand the dangers of excess alcohol drinking and the need for education. You also despite your pretense, should understand the acceptance of alcohol being a social necessity in all forms of life.