jimmydasaint

On 8/7/2022 at 3:11 AM, JimBlob said:

I'm merely a student of evolutionary biology but this article reads like an alarmist piece. And because it's not peer reviewed it carries no weight with me. I suspect were it presented for scrutiny we would find that most mutations are harmless and any harmful ones eliminated quickly. If the opposite were true many species would be seriously hindered since only a limited amount of offspring would survive to reach sexual maturity. Perhaps humans have found a way to increase harmful variations within our own genus but it's only because those born with defects in fitness reach sexual maturity instead of being eliminated. If natural selection is not permitted to function the fitness of any species will suffer.

It's good that you are reading with a critical eye. This will serve your studies well. The studies were performed on the yeast Saccharomyces cerevisiae, and the authors assumed that a wider number of species would show similar trends. As far as the article being peer-reviewed, if you had read to the end of the Science Daily article you would found the following reference:

Quote

Journal Reference:

1. Xukang Shen, Siliang Song, Chuan Li & Jianzhi Zhang. Synonymous mutations in representative yeast genes are mostly strongly nonneutral. Nature, 2022 DOI: 10.1038/s41586-022-04823-w

I hope that the journal Nature is stringent and peer-reviewed enough for your liking as it is quite well known. I think the research and the conclusions are not alarmist but quite pragmatic and, if they are found reproducible from a number of different scientists, overturn my old fuddy-duddy beliefs about so-called neutral mutations.  

On 8/14/2022 at 5:41 PM, GREYEANNIUS said:

Perhaps time is of essense. Old news sometimes lightens up to new news. sorry

Thanks for the reply. The news was published in 2022 and is quite dramatic. If proved, Biology books at school level would have to rewrite sections on genetic mutations. 

Guys,

Thank you for the replies.

I have tried MECM - Movement, Exercise, Collegiality and Meditation. The exercise bit was accepted and she did exercise daily. However, the other 3 were rejected. I then set micros-targets - shower, clean your house etc... and these were followed because they gave an element of control to the person. However, most importantly, I am the person at the other end of the telephone, or in person, who will listen - as long as it takes. I think the friendship element is lacking in a society which is being shattered into individual sections, isolated from each other by technology rather than coming together. Loneliness is, IMHO, a contributory factor to the disconnectedness of the individual from society and the subsequent retreat into the world of their thoughts. I will keep trying as I would do with any friend. I am hoping that something I will say will "click" and then the road to mindset change will become wider. 

If I can be of use to anyone in this Forum, please do not hesitate to ask for my advice. 

Best wishes

Someone close to my family has had years of depression which they refused to treat and has now fallen into a deep and sustained depression. I am trying to help through coaching and encouragement but my efforts have failed totally. Is there any non-pharmaceutical method to help this person out of their depression?  I am struggling to find methods which will result in a quick alleviation of this mindset.

Any help welcomed.

Oof!

Getting numbers and facts wrong should really result in a withdrawal of the paper surely?

Who peer-reviewed the original paper? Surely they could have double-checked a few of the numbers included and questioned the methodology?

I have often wondered if educational research which looks for significant numerical confirmation of hypotheses is open to bias in favour of mathematical and scientific subjects instead of opening up conclusions to all other subjects where increases in marks due to a given experimental intervention are not always clear. Furthermore, IMO, a rise in computer use in students over the last 20, or so years has not led to a huge increase in achievement for students. 

I just want to address the OP. ccdan referred to Popper and was struggling to find relevant data where a hypothesis was falsified in the Popperian hypothetico-deductive method.

Firstly, do you believe that there is some Objective Truth about phenomena or objects? Something that is independent of the subject and subjective bias? 

IIRC Popper believed that an Objective Truth could be reached through a deductive scientific method because induction was not enough. So a hypothesis is made, tested experimentally and then, if proved false, is modified and re-tested until it is close to an Objective Truth as possible.

I think Plato already indicated a sense of doubt about the reliability of observation and even getting close to an Objective Truth is valid science in my opinion.

My sense of ambivalence about the subject arises because I have seldom seen scientists go out of their way to falsify hypotheses. Quite the opposite. If a cell line did not show the hypothesis to be correct, a few scientists have been known to go out of their way to find the "correct" cell line. 

Nevertheless, the iteration of hypothesis, observation, deductive conclusion until you get close to the Objective Truth, is in stark contrast to induction.

An example of painstaking attention to Popper's method is described below:

Quote

To get a better understanding of the hypothetico-deductive method, we can examine the following geographic phenomena. In the brackish tidal marshes of the Pacific Coast of British Columbia and Washington, we find that the plants in these communities spatially arrange themselves in zones that are defined by elevation. Near the shoreline plant communities are dominated primarily by a single species known as Scirpus americanus. At higher elevations on the tidal marsh Scirpus americanus disappears and a species called Carex lyngbyei becomes widespread. The following hypothesis has been postulated to explain this unique phenomenon:

The distribution of Scirpus americanus and Carex lyngbyei is controlled by their tolerances to the frequency of tidal flooding. Scirpus americanus is more tolerant of tidal flooding than Carex lyngbyei and as a result it occupies lower elevations on the tidal marsh. However, Scirpus americanus cannot survive in the zone occupied by Carex lyngbyei because not enough flooding occurs. Likewise, Carex lyngbyei is less tolerant of tidal flooding than Scirpus americanus and as a result it occupies higher elevations on the tidal marsh. Carex lyngbyei cannot survive in the zone occupied by Scirpus americanus because too much flooding occurs.

According to Popper, to test this theory a scientist would now have to prove it false. As discussed above this can be done in two general ways: 1) predictive analysis; or 2) by way of experimental manipulation. Each of these methods has been applied to this problem and the results are described below.

 

Predictive Analysis

If the theory is correct, we should find that in any tidal marsh plant community that contains Scirpus americanus and Carex lyngbyei that the spatial distribution of these two species should be similar in all cases. This is indeed true. However, there could be some other causal factor, besides flooding frequency, that may be responsible for these unique spatial patterns.

 

Experimental Manipulation

If the two species are transplanted into the zones of the other they should not be able to survive. An actual transplant experiment found that Scirpus americanus can actually grow in the zone occupied by Carex lyngbyei, while Carex lyngbyei could also grow at lower Scirpus sites. However, this growth became less vigorous as the elevation became lower and at a certain elevation it could not grow at all. These results falsify the postulated theory. So the theory must be modified based on the results and tested again.

The process of testing theories in science is endless. Part of this problem is related to the complexity of nature. Any one phenomenon in nature is influenced by numerous factors each having its particular cause and effect. For this reason, one positive test result is not conclusive proof that the phenomenon under study is explained. However, some tests are better than others and provide us with stronger confirmation. These tests usually allow for the isolation of the phenomena from the effects of causal factors. Manipulative experiments tend to be better than tests based on prediction in this respect.

 

Source of article for Popper's method in action

The DNA code can have changes in it called mutations. DNA sequences specifically codes for amino acid sequences which are built into proteins. Proteins control the development  of organisms from a starting point to final organism itself. 

If the DNA mutations are in areas of the DNA code which can cause changes in the amino acid sequence, the final protein could be faulty and affect the final organism. Diseases such as  Sickle cell anaemia or cystic fibrosis are caused by a harmful DNA mutation arising from a single letter change in the DNA  sequence. 

I have grown up, and taught to my A-level (K12/13) students that some DNA mutations which do not affect the amino acid sequence are "neutral", "silent" or harmless. 

To my surprise, I read this recently and wanted to share it. 

Quote

 

Most 'silent' genetic mutations are harmful, not neutral -- a finding with broad implications

Date:

June 8, 2022

Source:

University of Michigan

Summary:

Occasionally, single-letter misspellings in the genetic code, known as point mutations, occur. Point mutations that alter the resulting protein sequences are called nonsynonymous mutations, while those that do not alter protein sequences are called silent or synonymous mutations. Between one-quarter and one-third of point mutations in protein-coding DNA sequences are synonymous. Those mutations have generally been assumed to be neutral, or nearly so. A new study involving the genetic manipulation of yeast cells shows that most synonymous mutations are strongly harmful.

 

ScienceDaily

StringyJ

Excellent, classical scientific technique.

What are you really getting at...?

Good find beecee. This article seems to be crossing the abiogenesis -biogenesis divide. Just a couple of questions. 1. Which organelles form this way in a cell which is approximately 90 percent water? 2. Presumably these experiments use pure reactants. Have they extended a similar model towards a "noisy" cell environment? 

I don't have time to read the whole article but presume you have mate.

Cheers

Sorry to wreck your party but your Speculations belong in the dedicated thread. At least please look up your topic on Wikipedia before posting. 

Good luck with the answers. 

Yes.

Great find Hans. The microbiome of communities of bacteria in the gut are so important as indicators of health and sources of future preventive medical strategies. A pity it did not get more hits. The study you included is fascinating and I hope the FMT had a long-lasting and not a transient effect.

I would prepare for any instability to society or the food supply by: a) accumulating dried foods that could last for 6 months

                                                                                        b) buying solar lamps that could give up to 10 hours of light after being charged by sunlight

                                                                                        c) buying batteries and torches that can be charged by induction

                                                                                        d) buying toilet paper -  a clean bottom is a prerequisite to face any social disorder (also clean underwear in case you are  asked to undress at the doctors )

I am not an economist or politician.

However, I am hearing rumours of a world economic crash, possibly in the next year, that will rival the 1929 economic disaster. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBpL2WwGiw4  

Harry Dent: Stock Market 40% Crash in April, Nothing Can Save You, Bitcoin to Zero, Gold to $1000 - YouTube

We, the public, should be able to analyse and assess how economic changes can influence all aspects of life including political manifestations as well as sociogeopolitical responses by a concerned public (e.g. me)

Do others see stability, limited instability or widespread instability?

Wow. This is fascinating. Just out of interest please, where is oxygen formed? Also, does the hypothesis propose if the protein can actually be biochemically active? Good find!

They are referred to as mucilaginous and it is possible that few scientists have fully analysed the sacs.

Link

Certainly, there are a number of beneficial substances including vitamins and minerals:

Paper

If you cross-reference the paper, you may find out the information you need.

How typical is this of other hunter-gatherer societies. If a tribal war took place which eliminated the males from a tribe, perhaps the remainder of the women were forced to feed their children by becoming hunters.

I seem to remember something about postviral syndrome, which is prevalent, in a minority of people who have had viral diseases as related here:

Quote

What are the symptoms?

The World Health Organisation has classified post-viral fatigue syndrome under the section of “diseases of the nervous system”. It’s defined as:

…a complex medical condition, characterised by long-term fatigue and other symptoms. These symptoms are to such a degree that they limit a person’s ability to carry out ordinary daily activities.

Despite the word “fatigue”, the symptoms can be broader and more debilitating than simple tiredness. They can include a sore throat, aches and pains across the body, blood pressure changes, gastric upsets such as irritable bowel syndrome, headaches, sleep disturbance, depression, and dizziness. More severe neurological symptoms can also occur, including new sensitivities or allergic reactions, and burning or prickling sensations in the limbs. Many COVID-19 patients, for example, report a prolonged loss of smell and taste.

Link

On 10/9/2020 at 10:17 AM, Prometheus said:

I remember a conversation with a Pakistani friend at school where he said he was going to try to become a doctor and that i should do the same. I just laughed at him - i've no idea where i picked it up, no one had ever explicitly said i couldn't, but even the idea of being a doctor was already beyond me. I was, however, explicitly told by my teachers that i couldn't be a pilot or a scientist.

I remember our Primary School teacher telling us that we needed basic English and Maths so that we could get jobs in factories.  My response was to do anything to prove her wrong.  Most of my colleagues accepted her view without comment.  I feel terrible when teachers say this stuff to people.  As a teacher (now out of retirement) in my whole teaching career of 22 years, I have never told a child they could not do something. I have always stressed that they could do anything that they set their mind towards. I apologise on behalf of teachers. 

On 10/9/2020 at 10:27 AM, koti said:

I think there is no universal answer, for some people this may be true for others not. I have a friend whom I've met 40 years ago when we were sat besides each other on our first day in first grade primary school. He ended up solely owning an industrial manufacturing company worth more than 100mln USD right now, his 21 year old son just left the psychiatric hospital again last week - drugs, street life, severe depression, suicide attempts, etc. Is this caused by a mindset? Probably, partially yes but there are so many angles and factors to take into account that this kind of generalization is only good for rap songs imo.

Sorry about your friend's son, that appears to be a mindset. However, a person has only failed when they admit it to themselves, in my opinion. I have taught in an area which can be described as an equivalent of the projects, and the mindset of a significant minority of students was exactly the same as the one that I viewed as a child. I take your point about generalisations and I did mention that doctors and other professionals came out of the same tough environments.  It would appear that the successful minority of people have a different mindset and that mindset is maintained despite external circumstances.  So, in my opinion, the rest of the people who are stuck in the ghetto have a mentality that is a story that they relate to themselves to keep them stuck in their circumstances.

21 hours ago, MSC said:

Oh! Awrite mate! Similar situation as yourself, but grew up in Edinburgh, probably too multicultural where I was from to be considered a true ghetto though, that being said, you could argue that some ghettos are based on socio-economic class alone. 

Up until last month, I was living in a racially segregated ghetto on Chicagos South-west side.

- How the US government segregated America.

So, I think ghettos do exist. 

However I want to develop an argument from your point of view that they only exist in the mind (which in some ways is actually accurate since racist and classist fears are all in the heads of bigots) but why that is still a bad thing.

I was once trying to get on a STEM course and my interviewer point blank told me "Some people just aren't capable of getting a PhD, so I don't think this course would be good for you if that is what you want to do." (Cow). I had told the interviewer it was my dream to get a PhD in physics at the time, other than my socio-economic background being from a really poor family in Edinburgh there was nothing this person could have known about me that would make her say something like that. Unless, in her mind I was from a ghetto. 

So, it's all very well to say "The ghetto exists in our minds" but we need to ask, does it only exist in the minds of people from ghettos? Or does it also exist in the minds of people trying to keep us there? If it is both, then the idea of ghettos definitely contributes to making ghettos a reality people from them have to overcome. An extra hurdle for us in comparison to rich people. To the point where it even makes it difficult for people like me and you to get onto entry level stem courses.

Note: will be back to edit and complete in 20 minutes, phone is dying.

Resumed: Now back to redlining. Do you know where American public schools get their funding? Property taxes. So Schools in redlined districts would have far less funding than schools in green districts. We are talking about decades of over-investment in white neighbourhoods vs underinvestment in minority ones. Take a drive across Chicago and the evidence for it is plain to see. It's like crossing between different worlds when you go from North to South. Why? Redlining. Decades of it. Even ending the practice hasn't fixed much because the effects of it were so potent that those neighbourhoods still have very little money whereas the green districts never experienced these things and their property values just kept rising and rising while red districts were forcefully stagnated.

The crazy thing is, whites in green districts were under the belief that if black people moved in, it would lower their property value. When in reality it actually raised it because minorities had to be willing to pay more for a house than white people were in order to actually own property. It was just sheer racism. The damage these policies caused has in no way been fixed because even now insurers and lenders still feel it is too risky to invest in these ghettos. There is still less opportunity for minorities because of the decades of funding and investment inequalities.

I have read your reply and the link.  I take the point, underfunding and racism do contribute to negative attitudes.  I also take the point that ghettoes exist in geographical location from deliberate Governmental legislation and decades of maladministration, and that other people have a mentality of what is expected from ghettoes.  Despite those points, I can state that I am working with a teacher who was educated at primary level under a tree. Under a bloody tree! Yet she showed an aspirational mindset and is now the best Science teacher in my school, by some margin.  The keyword in my opinion is aspiration.  It was aspiration that took me out of Glasgow, took you out of Edinburgh and took that teacher out of a small village in Pakistan. Aspirational mindset disregards environment, in my opinion, regardless of what racists and class supremacists do in any part of the world.  A person fails and stays in a stagnant situation when they relate the story of their failure to themselves.  It normally starts when they blame others for all their problems...

Redlining and greenlining. Please explain. 

I grew up in what could be termed a ghetto or "hood" environment in Glasgow. I don't know what your background was, but we were all poor. The poverty was just a temporary shortage of funding as I understood when we grew up. Doctors, PhD's and scholars came out of that environment, yet a large portion of the people believe in the hype of the ghetto and what it is meant to represent - trying a little bit, failing and then giving up. That archetype is what dominates ghetto environments .  The way out is to sell drugs and get rich quick, or die trying.  The criminals offer young children a different role model of easy acquisition of wealth to surround oneself with wealth.

This is an erroneous and dangerous mindset and philosophy passed on from father to son in my opinion. 

Please do elaborate on redlining and greenlining....

Akala the rapper clearly states that the ghetto or the "hood" is in the minds of the people who live in these areas and that it is more a state of mind in rich Western countries than a reality. I agree with him. 

What do you guys think?

On 9/14/2020 at 5:06 PM, swansont said:

"Strange chemical in clouds of Venus defies explanation. Could it be a sign of life?"

https://www.space.com/venus-clouds-possible-life-chemical-discovery.html

I am joining this vigorous debate quite late so I just wish to make one point. If micro-organisms are synthesising the phosphine and then undergoing replication exponentially before reaching a stationary phase and remaining in that phase where number of deaths = number of new bacteria then the levels of phosphine would be fairly constant throughout the year,  I would imagine. However, if chemical substrates such as phosphine precursors were variable then a prolonged, year-long examination of phosphine amounts should show variation.  In the same way, our atmospheric  carbon dioxide levels vary according to the raw materials for synthesis of carbohydrates by algae and land-based plants; we tend to see a decreased atmospheric concentration in the summer when ambient conditions of raw materials and substrates are at their highest. Of course I am just speculating but are there seasonal variations in atmospheric gas content on Mars?

Fantastic! Like the music as well!

I'll try again with Slash and Myles Kennedy:

Cheers StringyJunky, hope you are well mate. Have tried the BB code thing but it failed miserably.

Hey there mate, I just cut and pasted the entire youtube link into the post and got this great track:

I have been off the Forum for a while, writing up my book in the summer and also now starting a full time teaching role since the start of September. As a consequence I have forgotten how to embed videos and images.  Can one of the Mods or a kindly member reiterate in a step by step guide that can be followed by a simple-minded individual like myself?

Cheers