ParanoiA

Are you saying that socialism is a logical consequence? Socialism may have it's personal freedom side, but it also has a nasty oppressive side as well. Oddly enough, the UK seems to be more socially liberal. I don't understand why our free country isn't more progressive. We've got the right approach in terms of the 1st and 2nd amendment, but we're still archaic in our civil liberties.

I know what he is trying to say: that hypocracy is common in the practice of religion. But that is not how it reads, and is not how I first read it. Another possible interpretation would be that it is saying that all religions contain one ingredient in common - hypocracy. For anyone religious, this is offensive. You could interpret it multiple ways when you take once sentence out of the context of the post. When you add it back, you see the sentence was used in reply to written "text" that came out of the bible. Hypocrisy is common in the "text" of religions - all of them. If you're offended, I'm sorry but that doesn't make the statement incorrect or in need of censorship. It's becoming more and more obvious that America is buried in political correctness and beaurocracy. No one takes responsibility for their own reactions. It's always "somebody else's fault" , or "somebody insulted me". I wish we could get over ourselves and recognize that genuine perspective can be insulting, but it isn't wrong. I did not set out to insult anyone with that statement. That is what I sincerely believe. I also said I don't blame them and that we should be smarter than that now. I can understand if you take issue with my arguments. But try to at least be genuine in your replies. You're leaving out half of my statements to make yours true. That's not right. I don't do that to anyone else here and I also don't have a vendetta against someone simply because I don't agree with them.

It seems like most people just don't have any issues with legislating behavior. Congratulations to those of you who have the sense to not promote the regulation of this drug based on how teens are likely to react rather than freedom of access. Seems like we're getting more socialist everyday.

With all due respect, what was point in this shallow post? I doubt it. I think it deserved an equally shallow response. It's apparent that Skye doesn't care for any of my arguments, yet can't seem to muster a point of his own. Sad really, because I have not come here to crap on anyone. I haven't been disrespectful or insulting to anyone, yet I get a cheap shot like that. I don't understand where the animosity would come from. Is this how intellectual people debate?

I knew that was coming. So you ignore the multiple references to killing disbelievers and hold on to the one statement that says to not begin hostilities. Hypocrisy is a common ingredient in religion. It doesn't surprise me and it doesn't get Islam off the hook. I agree with John5746, it would be much better to "catch up" with the greeks and understand this is all just make believe for impressionable humans with no scientific presence of mind. Not that I blame them, but we should be smarter than that now.

See, I don't think you can because sperm will not make a baby on its own. The egg will not make a baby on its own. The processes that trigger the building of a human aren't active when these ingredients are on their own. That's the whole point of my position. At what point do the "instructions" become active and the actual building of the human begins? That, to me, is the start of the human potential. If you start to analyze the growth of the fetus and try to determine when it has human value, then it would be different for all fetuses. For example, one person might say 11 weeks. But not every fetus is in the exact same state of production at exactly 11 weeks. That's more arbitrary than my life at conception point. But, this is also why I don't think we should legislate pregnancy. A mother ought to have the right to kill anything in her body at any time. Once it comes out, that's another story. That would avoid all of this worrying about when to call it murder and blah blah blah. Personally, I think it's murder if you take the morning after pill. I just don't think it matters since it's your body and it's nobody else's business what you do with it. And since you don't have to kill babies to get the stem cells anymore, what's the issue?

wow...the intellect is just oozing from that statement...I surrender

Context rawks. No, what you get is a contradictory statement at best. It doesn't say "Kill attackers" or "Kill aggressors" - it says to kill disbelievers. The context you're claiming is just another statement; one isn't in reference of the other.

Considering the point of view that Islam may be racist fundamentally is thinking for ourselves. Who's brandishing stereotypes? We're just debating. And we're doing it based on genuine arguments, not broad strokes of ignorance and fear of not being PC. My reference to the establishment message is in reference to the poster who implied we all somehow haven't considered that perhaps we shouldn't judge all of Islam based on extremists. I was making the point that it hadn't escaped us, nor anyone I know. Everybody has received that message loud and clear. And I apologize for being snooty about GWB. I truly believe he's bought and paid for, but then I believe that is the case with virtually all of them. I don't want to deflect the thread, so I'll just say we, the people, get the government we deserve.

But that's the point, we have to allow it in order to show you. Remember, we're talking about censoring folks who criticize a religion with a genuine argument - not cheap obscenities. The quotes I picked out were on racism against Jews specifically. These are on all infidels... "8.38" : Say to those who disbelieve, if they desist, that which is past shall be forgiven to them; and if they return, then what happened to the ancients has already passed. "8.39" : And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do. "9.5" : So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush,then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them;surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. "9.29" : Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection. "9.73" : O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination. "9.123" : O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil). 4:89 They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them, 4:91 Ye will find others who desire that they should have security from you, and security from their own folk. So often as they are returned to hostility they are plunged therein. If they keep not aloof from you nor offer you peace nor hold their hands, then take them and kill them wherever ye find them. Against such We have given you clear warrant. 9:7 How can there be a treaty with Allah and with His messenger for the idolaters save those with whom ye made a treaty at the Inviolable Place of Worship ? So long as they are true to you, be true to them. Lo! Allah loveth those who keep their duty. 33:60 If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbours in it but a little while. Those who oppose Islam will be slain with a fierce slaughter. 33:61 Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter. 60:1 O ye who believe! Choose not My enemy and your enemy for allies. Do ye give them friendship when they disbelieve in that truth which hath come unto you, driving out the messenger and you because ye believe in Allah, your Lord ? If ye have come forth to strive in My way and seeking My good pleasure, (show them not friendship). Do ye show friendship unto them in secret, when I am Best Aware of what ye hide and what ye proclaim ? And whosoever doeth it among you, he verily hath strayed from the right way. 61:9 He it is Who hath sent His messenger with the guidance and the religion of truth, that He may make it conqueror of all religion however much idolaters may be averse. I don't expect anyone who follows it not to object. I know I would if I was a Muslim. What's wrong with that? The question should be, is it racist? I don't think so. And the quotes you provided do show evidence of violence, fear mongering, but I didn't see any racism nor call for the equivalent of a holy war - nor wholesale despite of any religion or race. That last one about Jesus sure gave me the creeps though. And for the record, I hold all religion in contempt. All of them are guilty of smear campaigns of one kind or another, because they are fabricated by men. It's aweful because people keep these conflicts going on and on, century after century.

No but if you ask a "White Supremacist" to teach his beliefs he/she will be express racism' date=' because it's the foundation of the belief, thats proven clearly. You've made the assumption that Islam is the same. They are uncomparable. You didn't even express your source when you quoted Versus from The Koran. I just don't understand how you can say something is the truth, yet not have any evidence to prove it. [/quote'] Ok, you're misunderstanding me. First, the quotes from the Koran can be googled, which is what I did. I didn't think I needed to provide a source since it's easily proven. I apologize. http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/browse.html Second, what kind of proof do you require? Those lines contain racism. Done deal. Lastly, the truth I've been referring to is the context of censorship in the pursuit of it. That's what I was going on and on about - not allowing genuine debate due to controversial subject matter circumventing the truth. I do believe Islam is racist and I believe I have provided some proof. The Koran is their bible. I do believe it is not to the same degree as the KKK, but in many ways it's worse due to their population and commitment level. And I haven't even mentioned the dead silence among its believers in the face of terror attacks. No outrage. Nothing. Go ahead, ask them if any suicide bomber will burn in hell or be punished according to their religion. This is eerily similar to the attitude of the KKK concerning members violently attacking black folks.

Why on earth would anybody associate any truth at all with a politician? GWB would sell his own mother if the price was right. As a political leader, the president has to say Islam is cool. Any president would say that whether they believed it or not. I don't think anyone is under any illusions of what kind of following Islam has. Of course they don't regard it as "evil". Just like white power followers don't think their ideology is evil. And you are right. The western world is more open and this is a perfect example of it. The obvious knee-jerk reaction is to "not condemn Islam". That's what we've been hearing since day one and is the moral of just about every after school special I've seen since I was 7. Believe me, we all get that... But, we're more open than that. We have the capacity to think for ourselves and question things here in the west and that's what we're doing here.

It is an indication of Islam's racism. No different than the KKK except the KKK has a few thousand members with no power in a country that doesn't agree with them, whereas Islam has about 300 million members that run countries that practice it. I would like to see the passages from the bible that compare to those above. Can you support this claim?

But it's not about hate. It's about disagreement. I mean' date=' Islam may be hateful or racist, but [i']I'm[/i] not because I point it out. Scots are people. Blacks are people. Gays are people. Islam is a religion. If people define themselves by it, then that's their problem isn't it? I haven't seen anyone address Muslims, but rather Islam. There's a difference. By the way, did you read the quotes I provided from the Kuran? You said if it can be argued that Islam is like the Nazis and the KKK...

Yes this fits the prejudice / racist remarks parameters. But did you just leave out the substance part of this post?

For your reading pleasure... This is from the Koran. These are specific to Jews. There are even more which deals with the Jihad against infidels. "3.112" : Abasement is made to cleave to them (the Jews) wherever they are found, except under a covenant with Allah and a covenant with men, and they have become deserving of wrath from Allah, and humiliation is made to cleave to them; this is because they disbelieved in the communications of Allah and slew the prophets unjustly; this is because they disobeyed and exceeded the limits. "5.51" : O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people. "5.82" : Certainly you will find the most violent of people in enmity for those who believe (to be) the Jews and those who are ΠpolytheistsΠ, and you will certainly find the nearest in friendship to those who believe (to be) those who say: We are Christians; this is because there are priests and monks among them and because they do not behave proudly. 2:65 And ye know of those of you who broke the Sabbath, how We said unto them: Be ye apes, despised and hated! Allah turned Sabbath-breaking Jews into apes to be despised and hated. 2:66 And We made it an example to their own and to succeeding generations, and an admonition to the God-fearing. 7:166 So when they took pride in that which they had been forbidden, We said unto them: Be ye apes despised and loathed! Well sure. Why not? If it is actually true that all Scots are stupid, then why should we ignore that fact? That is a genuine argument based on substance. And the links don't necessarily prove it anyway, they just support the argument. And who cares if it makes the other members want to tear a person's head off? That's their own problem. What if I want to tear your head off because I was insulted by you when you said my point was a "false dilemma"? Is that my problem or yours?

I think that post by Annexus20 is obviously shallow, with no real substance. He hasn't backed up his claims with any intellect. And the similarities between Islam and KKK are debatable...literally. I don't know what the outcome will be if we don't discuss it. Your post on this issue is an example of articulating a genuine point about the subject. Why should anyone else's genuine points about the subject be cast aside simply because it's not pro-Islam? Lastly, what if the KKK's teachings weren't recognized the way they are today? What if we never questioned it because it was viewed as prejudice or pre-judging all KKK members? That would be silly. Islam embraces racism just as badly as the KKK does, they're just more focused on those they're against. They also don't hide under hoods. But like the KKK, Muslims don't endorse terrorism and murder and they don't go out of their way to denounce it either. Just a little lip service ever now and then.

No, I don't believe in fairy tales and I don't make up theology to make myself feel important. I also don't claim to know how we got here so I really just don't know. I'm cool with that. I used the words intent and design, because reproduction is not an accident and seems to be a process that is repeated by all animals in one shape or form. Maybe not the best word, but I didn't realize we were going to reinvent the wheel in this debate...

And yet not a single baby has ever been created without fertilization.