xeluc

Thing is, can this guy provide an inert atmosphere for your method to work?

Speaking of this, I just did a little experiment. I electrolyzed steel in NaCl. I got this yucky black color (as I did before). After decanting and refilling with water once, the color remained the same. I headed out to a festival and a few hours later to find the water rust-colored. So now I'm continually decanting to get rid of residual NaCl. I believ eeverything is working nicely, although I'd like a higher amperage power supple than my crappy 12 Volt AC adapter. This takes forever. After that, I jsut need to test it. Unfortunatly, thus far I have found it near impossible to make aluminum powder by chemical means. As for putting it through a mill, I don't have one of those either..

I've tried it. It's about impossible to do by chemical means. Aluminum is just too reactive...

thanks a bunch

I know you never said it wouldn't you were pressing that it WOULD.. lol. Right now I am electrolysing Steel wool in NaCl solution. I should get Iron Chloride which will immediatly precipitate Iron Hydroxide.. Correct. So the drying and heating should Yeild Fe2O3. Perfect.. maybe.

Got this from another forum... "Sarevok - making rust You can simply mix a saturated solution of an hydroxide (such as sodium hydroxide, "lye") or of ammonia to a saturated solution of an iron salt (such as iron sulfate, chloride, nitrate, anything - as long as its soluble, that's it). Ferric hydroxide will precipitate. You then filter it and leave it to dry; ferric hydroxide is unstable and turns to ferric oxide (rust) as it dries." Therefore, Akcapr, I concede this debate So you can Make Fe2O3 that way, I also heard on a forum that Bleach and Vinegar (2:1 ratio) Will disolve steel wool very quickly. So.... There ya go.

giving you the benifit of a doubt, maybe my lower voltages give me different results?

Well. I was using a DC Power supply that was originally for a Sega Gamegear. Yes, Old School I know. I would very much like to build a variable power supply. I've yet to make extensive plans. Or buy one, which ever is cheaper. I have a feeling building on is cheaper? Could you point me in the right direction for this? @JSatan... Yeah I have added NaOH to a solution of CuCl2. The greenish solution turned a beautiful dark blue, which lightened after decanting and adding fresh water a few times to get rid of excess NaOH. From MY experience. NaCl witch Copper electrodes yeilds CuO. CuCl2 and copper electrodes yeilds Cu(OH)2.

More than one compound can be brown.... Iron hydroxide and Iron Oxide can be brown.. They can both NOT be too. Other than that, I havn't done sufficient testing to disprove your statement totally. I HAVE done electrolysis with both iron electrodes in a solution of NaCl and I got a nasty green precipitate. Definatly not Iron Oxide, Although There WAS a layer of what MAY have been Fe2O3 on top, it wouldn't be easy to seperate. After adding NaOH to the solution, The brown precipitate Turned into hte green crap. That's all the testing I've done. I will add iron hydroxide to my Iron oxide tonight. If it turns greenish black, I will concede that you can make SOME Fe2O3 with this method. (Although purifying this would be a pain.) If it does nothing, then that brown precipitate ovbiously wasn't Fe2O3. Oh yeah, there was also some brown precipitate on the stell wool that I used as an anode... I will also test that. NOW, if your saying that heating this Iron hydroxide that you produce will convert to Iron Oxide.. You may very well be right I have no idea... Is this what yoru trying to say?

Ok guys... FYI.. I just bought some NaOH ... HAHA.. Ok Round 2..... ding ding ding...

I currently have 5 pounds of Iron Oxide that I'm willing to part with. I got it on ebay for thermite but I dont have money for aluminum powder. I understand this is extremly risky since you don't know me.. but I would sell it to you.. Your choice of course.. If you don't want to buy some... Like H2SO4 said... Steel wool and water will slowly create your Iron Oxide. I guess PM me if your interested in mine. I don't even know what a fair price is.. I think I payred 20 something.. Oh yeah. I didn't check the rules. If it is illegal to sell anything on here, just say so and Ill edit my post..

I did this and I didn't get a pure anything. I had a mixture of red and grren blakc precipitate. After addition of NaOH, the red turned into the green black. This coincides with Von Klemming's experiment. I'm fairly certain Iron Oxide wasn't formed... I mean.. The possibilities are endless. Especially with the Chloride ions floating around (not to meantion reduced in favorable conditions) My point is.. It's not as clean as your putting it.

Ok.. Basicly the black green stuff is Fe(OH)2 . After exposer to air, It turns into Fe(OH)3 I believe, Which is reddish. I'm pretty sure you don't have Fe2O3 ... I tried the same thing. :-\ Of course, this is jsut what I was told. I don't understand The chemical pulling out another Hysdroxide form somewhere but I don't see it turning into Fe2O3 either.. so yeah. I could be wrong of course.

Basicly, I just like the Idea of having a chemical in a bottle and saying, I MADE this. I don't have a use for it at the moment. My chemicals are seriously lacking at the moment. During my Copper (II) Chloride experiments last summer gave my grandma the strange impression that I was making Meth. It's so sad, ignorance. I say, if you don't understand it, you can't judge it or make stupid assumptions. Honestly, name me a chemist who can create meth with copper, H2O2 and HCl and I'll give you a very large sum of money. Ignorance shouldn't be an excuse... This goes for multiple things. Anyhow, I really like your Salt bridge Idea. I saw one in this cell that had copper and zinc, in teir respective sulphate solutions with a salt bridge between them. I will try this. I do have yet another question though. Why would'nt the chemicals eventually mix? I mean Liquid obviously permeates cotten. I understand that the Ions would flow through. But I'd think if you left the salt bridge in long enough, liquids would mix, because of... Ok I don't remember the law but it talks about liquids moving from an area of high conc. to low. Anyhow, thanks. EDIT: I know NaOH is a very common chemical, but what uses does it have for a chemist? I understand that this is a broad question, but in general, what would you use it for.

I did some research and multiple source indicate that NaHCO3 thermally decomposes to Na2CO3, not NaOH. Is the same thing happening during electrolysis also?

Nice Woelen, you have helped me a lot, in more than one forum I believe. So thanks a lot. I really do appreciate all the help all of you guys give. I'm trying my best to participate also but my knowledge is somewhat lacking. Anyhow, I threw in some acetic acid and it bubbled... Where would I get one of these semi-permeable membranes? Could I make one with agar or something?

will there be any way of my knowing that all bicarb has been converted to hydroxide? Other than leaving it there for a week and hoping for hte best I guess.

I was told that Sodium hypochlorite and other complexes were made when using NaCl... Is this not true?... Besides, I just wanted to know if my current setup worked.

I am "electrolizing?" a Saturated solution of Sodium bicarb using Carbon electrodes just in case. Wouldn't this produce Sodium Hydroxide? If so, how would I know when the reaction is complete. The way I see it, [math]\cf{CO2}[/math] Production will taper off and [math]\cf{O2}[/math] production will start as the Sodium bicarb is converted. Is there any way to test for sodium Hydroxide? Thanks.

Thanks alot. Your explanation makes perfect sense. I jsut figured teh OH- wouldnt react till it reached the anode. I had it stuck in my head that it reacted with the metal anode, but it reacts with the Ions in the solution, which is obvious, but I'm really relativly new to this. I AM learning so much though. Also, nw I have all this Copper Hydroxide. Is this worth anything to a Chemist? I made these chemicals myself and would like to not waste them if possible.

So I have a 9 Volt DC power supply. I connected Copper to both the Cathode and Anode. There was CuCl2 disolved in the water. Something wierd is happening. The Anode is disolving as you'd expect, But the Cathode has a Gooey Blue precipitate coming form it. My only guess is Copper Hydroxide, but wouldn't that be forming on the Anode since OH is negative? Also there is a black precipitate forming on the Cathode, but that may be form water impurities. Also, why isnt the Cathode being plated with Copper? Everyone can get Copper Plating except me Also, there was a white precipitate omn the Anode, nowhere near as much as the blue stuff though.

What about drain cleaner? I'm pretty sure that'd work...

This says otherwise, so who's right? It'd make sense for you to be.. But who knows. EDIT: I think I have a solution. Please tell me if I'm right. The way I see it, theres a lot mre Cu than Ni in the crude metal. So Nickel if oxidized. When the Nickel Runs out, the Cu is then oxidized. Once all the Ions are in the solution, there is no lack of Cu2+ Ions, therefor the Nickel is never reduced. Is this correct? If it is, it looks liek I jsut answered my own question, and that feels good. Of course it proll isn't right.

Yeah, all that makes sense; but doesnt really answer my question. Cu ---> Cu+ + e- -0.52 Cu ---> Cu2+ + 2e- -0.34 Ni ---> Ni2+ + 2e- 0.25 All that's right, correct? So Nickel has the most positive Oxidation potential. But BOTH Cu and Ni are Oxidized. Both Oxidation states are below Ni, but it is still Oxidized, Whereas.. Cu+ + e- ---> Cu 0.52 Cu2+ + 2e- ---> Cu 0.34 Ni2+ + 2e- ---> Ni -0.25 Now both Cu Ions are favorable for reduction. And ONLY the Cu is Reduced. So..what's going on?

Good enough for me, Thanks alot.