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Intrigued last won the day on April 12

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  1. Intrigued

    What is faith?

    I suspected as much, but I'm not clear what point you were trying to make. I think most would agree that perspective can and often does influence the questions we ask as well as the answers we give. Many would say, and I would agree, that this is normal and understood and not necessarily negative. All well and good, but how are you tying this into the role, or character of faith?
  2. Intrigued

    What is faith?

    It seems, from my perspective, that your views are more heavily weighted with perspective than mine. Can I justify this? I think I can. In my post, which you addressed, you suggest that I have viewed White Nationalism (WN) as something to be accepted as rejected. I commend a second reading of my original post. Nowhere do I imply WN should be rejected. My interest, in that post and this conversation, is the measurement of WN; how might it objectively and quantitatively be measured. Such measurements could support condemnation/rejection, or they could identify for White Nationalists individuals sympathetic to their views. The measurement is independent of how it is subsequently used and it might be used to support, attack, or simply observe WN. That said, I agree that often measurements are taken in order to support an agenda, or test a hypothesis. When NASA first looked for life on Mars the experiments carried out by the Viking Landers were done from the perspective that their might be active life present in the regolith. The results of those experiments, seen as negative, meant that perspective changed. Subsequent investigations looked for water and evidence of the action of water. Why would I waste time and angst having faith in parachuting? If I think I might like to make a parachute jump I carry out what in current buzz words is called a risk assessment. This might include a look at the accident statistics for jumps, discussion with experienced and novice jumpers, reviews of the group or company I shall make the jump with, objective examination of the physical skill set and mental attitude I would bring to the jump, relevance of weather conditions and landing terrain, etc. On completion of that analysis I would have a realistic, semi-quantitative measure of the risk involved in a jump. Faith would have no relevance. I would jump confident that the odds were in favour of a successful jump, with only a small risk of minor injury and very small risk of death. In short, why oh why, would I base my decisions on an emotional and wholly subjective appreciation of an imagined world, when I could rely on an objective assessment of risk. Unattractive as it often is, I vote for reality at every opportunity.
  3. Intrigued

    What is faith?

    Thank you for that. Your argument didn't seem to match other posts of yours I think I had read. so I was puzzled.
  4. Intrigued

    What is faith?

    I am not clear how stating the blindingly obvious without recourse to an internet or library search consitutes quote mining. Nor do I find it surprising that two members might come up with the same examples, when they are so prominent. Can you point me to the faith qualifier. I don't see it. All the more reason that your statements should be factually accurate.
  5. Intrigued

    What is faith?

    His post likely should read " The un-corrupted or characterised message of religion could be that we should all take responsibility for some thing greater than ourselves, in order to attain 'eternal' life." However, like you, I have no idea what a "characterised message" is. Given his analogy of pedigree dogs and their breeders K.C. may be The Kennel Club. The second sentence would then be "The breeders, who focus exclusively on the definition of a breed, are blind to the existence or role of the environment." I think, until he can express himself with clarity, it is likely that we will find ourselves arguing with a strawman, of his creation, not our devising.
  6. Intrigued

    What is faith?

    Take your time. I'm in no hurry. Just make sure your terms are defined and that there are no ambiguous pronouns.
  7. Intrigued

    What is faith?

    Exactly so, and thus having faith, would become a self-reinforcing, positive-feeback, unchallengable position. "Faith consistently supplies positive profound benefits, therefore faith is a good thing and since it visibly does this it is obviously something to accept and believe in unreservedly." Thank you for your detailed response. If I understood what you meant by it I would be happy to reply, either agreeing, disagreeing, or questioning. Unfortunately, while I understood all the words and the superficial meaning of each sentence, I was unable to assemble the whole into a coherent point of view. I've struggled with several of your earlier posts. Please attribute this to my poor English comprehension* if it makes you more comfortable, but also consider the possibility that you are not as clear in your exposition as you imagine. *As a native English speaker and occassional teacher of communication skills, I'm usually quite good at distilling meaning from word salad.
  8. Intrigued

    What is faith?

    I found my question relevant to almost every point and question in DrmDoc's OP, but I'll just select one example. DrmDoc said this: "What have you observed, experienced, or accomplished that supports your faith?" If an individual believes that faith has predominantly, or even exclusively positive and profound benefits this will provide a justification for their faith. If they do not hold such a view, then we must look elsewhere for the source of their belief. Consequently I was interested to learn what EricH's position was on this. (And still am!)
  9. Since you note that expertise on standard HR theory is completely absent here, I take this as an acknowledgement that you also lack any expertise in the matter. Consequently we may safely disregard any thoughts you may have on the matter.
  10. Intrigued

    What is faith?

    It is, however, relevant to the thread topic. The nature of faith, as perceived by those who make extensive use of it, usefully informs DrmDoc's questions in the OP.
  11. Intrigued

    What is faith?

    Would you agree it can also have negative and profound detriments?
  12. Intrigued

    What is faith?

    This appears to contradict itself. In your analogy of the Pedigree Dog, the pedigree particulars are specific and quantifiable. The breeders focus on these quantities, rather than, as you claim, blocking all others. Indeed, they have to "measure" non-pedigree features in order to determine that they are non-pedigree. How to measure White Nationalism? For example, determine preferred reactions to hypothetical situations. Or, measure the degree of acceptance of negative stereotypes of non-whites. It should not be too difficult for a comeptent sociologist to come up with several protocols that would ahndle this.
  13. Intrigued

    What is faith?

    Plate tectonics. Hot Jupiters. There's two.
  14. Intrigued

    What Love Is

    When Woody Allen was asked if he thought sex was dirty, he replied, "it is if you are doing it right."
  15. Other than Aman777* in another place, can you name any other Christian individual, or denomination that makes the same unique claims regarding our origins as you do? They not only conflict with science they are contrary to any version of Christianity I am familiar with. It's a rare achievment to combine heresy and pseudoscience in one concept, but you have managed it! *Or just confirm that's who you are and I shan't waste anymore time on you.