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Posts posted by ModernArtist25

  1. If you'd hold up on vegan food alone - kudos to you. I would imagine the following year they would need to drive you to a hospital for malnutrition treatment, if you'd survive that is.

    I guess you haven't met enough vegans in your life. I knew people who were vegans for years, even decades and they look younger and more fit than most people their age. They said it is the best thing they have ever done. When it comes to any diet, you gotta plan it, otherwise you will either suffer from obesity, diabetes, or malnutrition.

  2. At the end of the day, it's all about compassion. That's what the vegan lifestyle is really all about. Compassion for all sentient beings and minimizing harm as much as one can possibly can. And everyone has their own standards when it comes to compassion. :)


  3. On the other hand I am focusing on people instead of cows, so there's that.


    Unless you are willing to exit this world, you are likely doing it more harm than good. Veganism is a nice gesture, but it is not much more than that.

    It is not reasonable to tell someone to kill themselves, if everyone reduce meat consumption or be on vegan diet, it is better for the planet.

    Nobody should think that just because they are only making a small impact that they shouldn't make any impact at all.

    When you reduce your meat consumption, you are not doing it just for the cows but for also the world and the future generation:







  4. Thanks for the clarification.

    Well then we are just the same!


    We both put making our lives easier and tastier over the welfare of animals. :P

    LOL...Except I used to buy my meat from the grocery store and most meat from your local friendly Walmart or Publix came from farms that don't respect animals at the time that they were living, physical abuse and horrible conditions. But now I purchase from farms that raise their animals ethically. Go check out http://www.whiteoakpastures.com or http://www.halalpastures.com


    But before, when I was blinded, I used to buy these :(




    or https://www.treehugger.com/green-food/perdue-chicken-farmer-invites-film-crew-his-farm-show-whats-really-going.html


    So what is it? You don't support any product that employs cruelty, or you are willing to accept cruelty if it is for a product that you want?



    If it is for the product that would make my life easier, yes. And I need to eat meat every now and then too because it would satisfy my taste buds. But we have to admit, it doesn't change the fact that vegans reduce more suffering than your typical meat eater.


    So what is it? You don't support any product that employs cruelty, or you are willing to accept cruelty if it is for a product that you want?


    Like everyone else, you are picking and choosing what level of impact you are willing to accept. You won't accept the impact to a cow, but you will accept it to birds and certain ground animals because you like that coffee table. Short of ending your own life, if you want to minimize your impact on animals you can have the most impact by not reproducing.




    Ok, well who do you think cause less suffering, an omnivore who eats meat everyday or a vegan who doesn't eat meat, or use toothpaste,soap,and hair products that's been tested using animals but has a 10 yr old coffee table? I am not saying vegans are perfect but we gotta give them props for reducing suffering.

    Mouse traps? Wasp and ant spray? Hydroelectric dams? Vegetables grown in fields that were once animal habitat? Homes built of wood that came from trees that housed squirrels? I can go on for hours. You are going to have a hard time finding any products whose production didn't harm one animal or another.

    More trees have to be cut down for crops harvested for livestock, this causes habitat destruction.






    There will always be suffering, but we can reduce suffering as much as we possibly can.


    The electronics that we use, the clothing that we wear have caused suffering (slave labor)


    No, I'm speaking for every last human alive. You're happy with butchering your fellow beings while you don't have to, and think that's fine treatment, so I'm definitely talking about you too.


    You could just say that you don't give a damn. Would be honest at least.


    I have a lot of respect for vegans, they have so much compassion, not just for cats and dogs but for all species. I think vegans are from the future. Eating meat might be one of those things that we will look back in the past with abhorrence. Just like today, we see burning black people alive or disabled people abandoned and left to die very repulsive. Maybe in the future, the majority of the people will be plant-based eaters, who knows...


    This year I just found out that there is a National Animal Rights Day :embarass:

  9. Fair enough. How does not being able to hunt affect a cats psychology?

    Our cat does a great job at limiting the mouse and mole population in our garden. I don't mind.


    What about the bugs?


    I don't need to. Such abuse is illegal in my country, and several such companies where closed recently for less serious abuse.


    citation required (and not just a few examples)

    What is it specifically that a cat cannot get from food with supplements? The manufacturer certainly claims that it contains everything a cat needs to be healthy.

    If the cat is mainly indoors and the owner plays with the cat so it can express its natural behavior, then that is a good thing. There are plenty of great cat toys being sold out there. A lot of cats really like "da bird" toy. Makes my cat do back flips and side flips. 😄 I remember a co-worker telling me that her cat is such a bitch because it scratches her all the time, when I asked her if she plays with her cat, she said no. I knew that was the problem. Cats need to release their energy somehow right? Or they will cause destruction.


    Like I mentioned before, in my opinion, it is ok to kill bugs if they are causing a threat to your health. There are cases of roaches going inside people's ears or eyes, or other parts of their bodies. There were a couple of times when a bug got in my car, my friend was about to kill it, but I told him to just let it outside which I was glad he did. 👌


    Just because a product claim to do something doesn't mean it cannot cause issues on other areas. Here are links to cat nutrition, talks about grains and starches too:





    Vegan cat food is filled with carbs.


    "In their natural setting, cats whose unique biology makes them true carnivores would not consume the high level of carbohydrates (grains, potatoes, peas, etc.) that are in the dry foods (and some canned foods) that we routinely feed them. You would never see a wild cat chasing down a herd of biscuits running across the plains of Africa or dehydrating her mouse and topping it off with corn meal.


    In the wild, your cat would be eating a high protein, high-moisture, meat/organ-based diet, with a moderate level of fat and with only approximately 1-2 percent of her diet consisting of carbohydrates. The average dry food contains 35-50 percent carbohydrate calories."







    There are lots of info online about cat nutrition


    If people don't own cats, the alternative is not free-roaming cats; the alternative is (in general) no cats. As a result, owning a cat most certainly increases suffering of mice and birds (and moles and squirrels...).



    Vegan cat food.

    Alternative is having cats, being a responsible owner, not letting the cat loose in the neighborhood. I let my cat out on a leash so he gets to smell the fresh air and sunlight. I know owners who have a catio for their cats to have fun while getting the taste of outdoors. I think you saying people shouldn't own cats at all doesn't make any sense...LOL. One can be a responsible cat owner you know. My cat had never killed a mice or bird or infect any other animal with disease.




    Did you watch the videos on Tyson meat farm and Perdue? How do you feel about meat that came from these type of factories that you find in supermarkets?

    Obviously the world still has a long way to go with regard to 'becoming civilised'. I am sure, as with human rights, animal rights are also improving thankfully.



    That is true, there is hope.
    Feeding that type of food long term causes urinary tract infection and inflammation. Cats don't do well on potatoes and grains. They are obligate carnivores.
  11. I cannot feed my cat vegan cat food because cats are obligate carnivores. Cats cannot survive on eating plants. I buy his meat from the same farm I buy my meat. Where they raise their animals ethically. I buy my meat from www.whiteoakpastures.com My friend and I had actually visited the place too, animals seem lively and happy, up until the time they get killed. 😰 But it is waaaay better than Perdue or Tyson farms, I shouldn't even compare. Did you see the videos that I posted on how they treat animals on those big named meat product companies that you predominantly see at the supermarket? What do you think of it?

  12. I haven't heard of a baby dying of an omnivore diet. Have you? (something went wrong in my link in the previous post, where you can find plenty of examples of children dying after eating spoiled meat. I fixed it now. I didn't specifically search for babies.)



    So what about cats, vermin and bugs?


    Is it ok to own a cat, tremendously increasing the suffering of mice and birds?


    Is it ok to commit genocide on vermin?


    Is it ok to mutilate bugs and leave them to die slowly?


    Okay so they blamed the meat that's been spoiled but not specifically the diet that includes meat or omnivore diet. They blame vegan diet instead of the parents not feeding children(not talking about babies here) enough food or enough variety of food that will give them all the nutrients that they need. There's no need to say the vegan diet is the cause because there are children out there who is definitely thriving on a vegan diet.


    It's ok to own a cat, it won't be increasing the suffering of mice and birds if it's not let loose around the neighborhood.

    If the vermin is a threat to our survival of the human species, yes it's ok to genocide on vermin.

    I don't think it's ok to kill vermin or bugs unless they are negatively affecting our health or well-being. To be honest, as I am growing older, I start to feel more not only for cats and dogs, but other living things/earthlings that call this planet their home.

  13. You are dead wrong about media not reporting meat-related child deaths.


    Especially for babies, who don't eat meat yet, milk/formula is just safer. It contains everything the baby needs, no supplements required. Same for older children and even adults: a vegan diet requires more thought and consideration.



    I am also still interested in your opinion about pet cat ownership, vermin extermination and bug squatting.


    Cow’s milk is for calves. Human milk is for human babies. Each mother makes the perfect food for her baby. The breast milk composition changes as the child grows so that the milk of a mother with a three month old is totally different than the milk this same mother produced when that baby was a newborn. These changes are specifically designed by nature to meet the continuing developmental needs of the child. Now if for some reason the mother is unable to breastmilk, maybe she's all dried up already, I guess she needs to do what she has to do in order for the baby to survive, even if it means taking another species milk. And when have you heard about a baby who died of an "omnivore" diet? and what about cats, vermins and bugs?



    But my main point was that a vegan diet isn't all great and also has its weaknesses.



    I agree, same with omnivore diet, it has its weaknesses. Every type of diet requires planning if you want to be healthy. Since we are omnivores, humans in a plant-based diet can thrive and people who eat a little bit of meat can also thrive. But I'm talking about compassion here in this topic, the best way to reduce suffering is by eliminating meat products.


    Yes, interesting, but you have still not demonstrated that farmers feed vitamin B12 to their livestock. Not good enough.


    Livestock are supplemented with b12 because the animals that we are eating can’t even get b12 because of modern farming practices. The reason b12 are more prevalent among vegans is because they tend to eat less fortified food. Farmers know that they need to supplement these animals with b12 or they would die much earlier.




    The first two links don't work. The third link refers to the adding of cobalt to cattle feed. Vitamin B12 needs cobalt, but the vitamin itself is not added to the feed. The cattle can synthesize vitamin B12 provided they have the cobalt.


    As I said in a previous ignored post, our species has lost the ability to synthesize B12, so feeding us cobalt would not be much use.


    Try copying and pasting the links.

    Another link you can check out:




    In this sentence, when I say I, I really mean you; does that help?


    Plenty of people on a plant based diet thrive. I don't see why it would be called suffering. Suffering is when you have heart disease, obesity and cancer from eating too much meat.


    So what would you do with land which is impossible to cultivate, and only good for grass?


    Where would you get your vitamin B12?


    I've asked this before, but received no answer.



    If you don't have access to the supermarket that has vegetables, fruits, beans, legumes, lentils, seeds, etc... and you have to settle for meat to survive, then that's what you have to eat. And vegans get their vitamin b12 in supplements. Farmers supplement their livestock with b12 so meat eaters can eat it, but vegans supplement it themselves.

    How about you, do you have access to a grocery store near you?




    Your ethics seem a little flexible and different for cats... Interesting...


    It's the same. If humans need meat for survival, then that's what they have to eat. But in this day and age where we have supermarkets nearby, we have a lot of options, meat is not a necessity.

    For example, the Inuit people who live in the Arctic, it's justifiable for them to eat meat because it's difficult for plants to grow there all year round.

  19. I give raw meat to my dog :)


    I give raw meat to my cat. And I make sure it came from farms that raise animals ethically. :) If a cat can survive on a vegan diet, then I would feed it vegan diet, but cats are obligate carnivores. If that's what the cat needs for survival, then that's what it will get. :) It has no other option.

  20. Handy andy, those are interesting questions. At the end of the day, righteousness is subjective isn't it?

    Citation required.

    Vegans aren't all good, though. There are plenty of examples of babies dying from a vegan diet. Other babies die from neglect too, but these vegan parents usually care for their children but are badly informed, partly because of questionable anti-meat propaganda.

    For the ill-informed, eating meat is safer and healthier.



    You see, we never really read a headline that said judge convicts parents after baby dies from omnivorous diet. Ask yourself, why? It’s sad that some people read these articles about baby dying from vegan diet and can’t think critically. How many vegans are there in the world? That’s like 1 percent. How many people out there are actually raising their child to be vegan? Very small percentage. How many babies in the world die because of health related issues? It’s way more than 1 percent. And what type of diet these babies are on? Most babies are on an omnivorous diet. But you never see those headlines in the news.


    This reminds me of the time when a vegan had died trying to climb Mount Everest and the media made a big deal about it and blamed it on a vegan diet. But they never acknowledged all the vegans who have successfully reached the top of Mount Everest. And every other person who has failed and died trying to climb Mount Everest, 99% of them were meat eaters. That’s why when reading articles, always ask yourself why. These articles you see about the babies dying from vegan diet, it is because the parents are not feeding them enough and babies are underweight, and we are not given enough details of how much these parents are feeding their children.


    Can you tell that a lot of these animal products industries have financial ties to the media industry? After all it’s the media that promotes their products right? McDonald’s, Burger King, KFC, Papa John’s, you name it. If the animal products industry see that veganism seems to be on the rise, they create fear and doubt in the people to stir them off from choosing a vegan diet.

    Citation required.



  21. Just a thought.

    What do you propose to do with the cold wet parts of the world where pretty much the only thing which grows is grass?


    At the moment we use them to raise cattle or sheep (which can eat grass).

    Here in the rich West we might be able to manage something with heated greenhouses and such.

    Is your plan for those in poorer parts of the world that they simply starve?

    Or do you have some other solution?



    I think if they need the animals to survive because they have no access to the grocery store, then they gotta eat whatever is there for them. If they have no other options, they gotta do what they gotta do right.

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