Newtonian

Ha.....indoctrination is not the same as "teaching moral guidance". Teach "moral guidance" at home if you so wish, but leave the schools free from any[/b'] type of religion. Schools are a place for logic.

Who told you schools are for logic.

School is an institution for the education of children,to instruct and impart knowledge and discipline in preparation for life,in the big bad world.It has nothing to do with logic

Cadmus as well as others have posted good issues,sorry for getting hot under the collar.

Phi pointing to Jonestown,heavens gate etc etc,is not relevent to the discussion.I could quite easily link to satanic cults,which had started out as a few atheists getting together.

Until we have mass demonstrations by our school children to remove these words from the pledge,i will consider it only hysterical ,bias claptrap from a tiny minority of anti-establishment goofies.

Which if the words were removed ,would probably argue for the actual pledge to be removed next,or we want the words back etc.

Everyone has a right to an opinion,however nobody has provided sufficient evidence thats its an infringment of human rights or harmfull to the mindset of children.In fact i think if schools gave a ballot im sure the children would prefer it the way it is.With a minority reflecting your own views(which is why its voluntary,and they dont have to say the word G)

I think to deny the rights of the significant many,just because a few misguided individuals dont like it.Is not a reason for reformation,do you not agree.

Before the leprechaun' date=' he used to love to poke fun at her when she was being dumb about something. He used to feel superior when she would stumble over a big word or misunderstand a story on the news. He would explain a joke and then spend the next half hour snickering over her stupidity.

 

But now, all she has to do is give him that look....

 

That look that says, "You saw him, too, fool. You saw the little green hat, the pipe stuck in his mouth, the little walking stick he carried. And we weren't drinking that night either, our checks hadn't come and there wasn't a drop in the house, so nothing you can say can make me believe it was my imagination. I washed your drawers the next day, I [i']know[/i] you saw him too."

 

Now he didn't feel superior at all....

hahahaha good one

Cadmus,ezzmus anyother muss.

Religious reference have not,do not,could not ever be a potential threat TO CHILDREN.

The role of religion is to teach moral guidence.

I honestly think people here are being caught up in their own agenda.

What everyone is ignoring, is the fact that there is not a public outcry of religious indoctrination from our teenage society.Its the parents who are making a big issue out of this.

I ask you were ever you were born,has any poster here actually went home as a kid and said "oh by the way dad who is god"

Or more pertinent,I have never in all my life witnessed a child of two atheist parents.Coming to school and saying"my grandma is dead,but its ok she hasnt gone to the imaginary heaven.She is just going to get eaten by worms and end up fertiliser"

Please people have a sense of reality.

Hellbender.Bull Shit!

Dont insult peoples intelligence with crass remarks.Ghosts exist fact! ive already told you i seen a dead baby ghost on the floor.

no you cannot say that,but you can have a link

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/latimests/20050214/ts_latimes/inafirsthearinglossisreversedindeafmammals

kinda makes you wonder what kind of person camila is to accept this kind of talk though.

I think he got confused which orifice YT2095,cos her face looks like an ass with piles.

Only the very most fanatical secularist would object to that and they should not be paid any more attention than is paid to the very most fanatical of religious zelots.

Firstly i think you misinterpreted syntax's post.The part of the post you picked him up on, was a statement reflecting his opinion that fanatical secular/religious should not be paid attention to.As such he didnt direct it at you personally.I cannot understand your thinking he did.

Ad hominem doesn't have to attack me directly,

I thought an ad hominem was a personal attack

eg

Syn " I believe we should say under god

Phi " Ha,you would your a gay priest"

Syn "what about the arguments i put forward,to support my position"

Phi "It doesnt count,like i said your a gay priest.

Anyway right up to post 215,I thought common sense had prevailed.Now its gone silly again so i wish you all well.

Interesting post YT GLAARUGL.. That was me vomitting on my keyboard.

The book the final theory is good reading,however its nothing new.

Its basically expansion theory wearing a mask.

Scientists have restored hearing in the lab.By inserting a corrective gene with a virus inducing the growth of cochlear hair cells.Testing the gene ATOH1 been successfull in guinea pigs.Should it work in humans it will be fantastic,giving millions of deaf people a quality of life we take for granted.

Yes,she had niavely assumed that marriage and fidelity go together.I dont believe Charles didnt love Diana,but his petulent excuse was why should he be the only prince of wales,not to take a mistress.

Syntax your directing your question to the wrong person.

Sayo hasnt stated anything one way or the other.

I believe there is only Tiny who is debating this.

You don't seem to be distingushing between what the people do and what the government does. Private citizens can put religious symbols basically wherever they please, on private property. They can believe what they want, practice whatever religion they want (as long as specific actions don't violate secular laws) and say what they want (again, within the restrictions of what constitutes speech). If 81% of the country is Christian, it doesn't mean they get to have the country display Christian symbols. The rights of the other 19% matter, too. No having the government erect crosses everywhere is not a restriction of the free expression of religion. The government telling you that you can't build one yourself is (again, within context of e.g. building codes).

I was trying to put across the fact that religious symbolism already in situe(say for hundreds of years) are being taken down and off govn buildings.I think its PC gone mad.

What next statues of the crucifiction being removed from outside churches,that overlook public pathways.Because Joe Bloggs the atheist is offended.

I do take on board others points of view,'but really' using children as tools to force agenda,and now a recital of a pledge as 'child abuse' is stretching the creduality of there debate.

Its now been disovered that a more potent and deadly strain of HIV has been discovered.A 40 yr old gay male in NY,has been found to have this new strain called 3-DCR HIV.Full blown AIDs now sets in within 2-3 months instead of 10 years.Its resistent to 3 out of four treatments,and renders 19 out of 20 drugs useless.

The male had multiple sex partners,which are desperately being traced.His excuse for having unprotected sex with multiple partners ,was his judgement was clouded .He was on the drug crystal methamphetamine.

Very scary,

Its in todays papers that prince Harry is not happy.Apperently when told he threw a major fit,with door slamming etc.Understandable and not unique,but he blames Camila for the breaking his mothers heart..

Thanks Tiny,I was under the impression it was voluntary.

I remember every day at school assembly we all had to say the lords prayer.I say had to meaning i spent most of the time lip-syncing it(nobodys forced or beaten).The only people excused were muslim children and atheists.

However i do think arguing the indoctrination of children (as if we must protect them from a sadistic cult who worship the devil)as an excuse,is properganda for another agenda.Are we to believe that a godless society knows whats best for our childrens welfare,that to be a well adjusted moral,compassionate human being one must protect them from christianity and God.Without being religious indoctrination i see it as teaching young children morals,love,compassion and sanctity of life(thats christianity not reciting a pledge) just as whatever faith in whatever country your born in does.

Im not saying that its the right/wrong way to teach that.At the same time one could say by your actions your denying children access to god,guidence and questions they have.Who says that the children shouldnt have these rights,which are in place to begin with.You/me?

I think the systems in place i.e are of benefit to that child in their country of origin.And later as they mature and have questions that the faith dont answer,they follow the path they chose.Which as adults we do,is that so wrong?

TBH whatever religion you follow,has been guidence to accomplishing a civilised society,we are no longer savages.

However reciting under god,or referring to god is hardly worthy of the titles which you refer.....Christian indoctrination of our children(or mind control)

Good stuff, Xakana. I'm reluctant getting a parrot because I don't know how to treat them so that I'm not acting cruelly. What are the minimum requirements - space, temperature, food. Do you have any good links?

This is something giving you the basics hope it helps

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/soenke.stollenmaier/petparrotkeeping.htm

I used to keep sucker loach fish,they did a pretty good job.But that was only in the fish tank not a swimming pool.I dont think its a good idea to put fish or insects in your pool,i think it will create more mess than help it.

Why not empty the pool over the months were its not being used,and covering it!

I believe there's a little narcissism in everyone.Dont you agree

Please dont be like that Hellbender.I find alot of your posts well written and enjoy your input.I apologise if you believe im not listening to your argument.I am but merely believe you are using the constitution as a means to persecute 81% of your population whom are christian.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech

this means to me that you are free to practice any faith which you see fit,except human sacrifice.

The fact that 81% of your country is christian(it used to be greater),and as such are bound to use religious symbols on architecture,and inevitably use things like swearing on the bible in courts of law.

The ammendment of the constitution gives the individual right to practice whatever religion unhindered ,it doesnt say if you dont like christian things we will ban them for you.

The removing of a monument depicting the ten commandments from the court house in alabama,was religious persecution and discustingly PC.

The acknowledgement of god in a mainly christian country is to be expected.

Jefferson did not call for separation of church and state, but asserted that the legislative powers of government “reach actions only, not opinions,” thus protecting the right of individuals to their religious beliefs and prohibiting government from passing laws restricting the expression of faith.

If we agree hellbender and make it law were all reference to God,swearing on the bible etc is removed.Then your giving power to that gov to come in and and say you cannot acknowledge God.Thus restricting the expression of faith.

Which is the very thing your saying you dont want to happen.And is unconstitutional.

When i use a joke it isnt meant to be insulting.I use them to a) show with humour a silly perception of logic. b) to take the heat off and give people a giggle and make everyone realise its only a debate.There isnt a need to slag other posters off or scratch their eyes out because you dont like what they say.

If this is a bad thing i wont do it,however reading the threads alot of posts would disappear.

Whooo,I must not have put my point of view across in the correct context.And i apologise.

Horse shit.

There were literally millions of flags out thoughout 2004 with the football supporters pinning them to anything accessible. You could not go two yards without seeing a flag.

Sorry i missed out that we are allowed to fly the national flag on major national sporting events like the world cup.But my statement is still correct otherwise.

hmm since you are obviously bigoted on this' date=' I don't see hopw any argument will get through to you.

Why do you hate atheists so much? Becasue we don't believe in your god? Saying atheists need to "shut up and get a life" is demeaning and insulting and will be reported to a moderator. Maybe you think being a bigot is amusing, but most people don't[/quote']

apologies im not bigotted,and i dont hate atheist people.I was trying to make you see that is what your argument was biggoted to me.To dislike the fact that a voluntary word 'under god' and to try to get rid of it because you dont agree with it,is biggoted is it not.

I would be gratefull if you didnt take my words out of context and arrange them to say something i never.I never said 'shut up and get a life'.

I said Instead of moaning how maligned you all are as athiests,get a life.

All i was trying to say was lifes too short to argue over some trivial word(which is a choice wether you speak it or not) unless im wrong and people are forced to say it.

If im incorrect let me know,your correct i dont know alot of america,but i assumed it was the land of the free.

no one said my opinion counts more than millions. Where are you getting this strawman delusion from? Our opinion counts becasue we are American citizens protected under the constitution

Which has the G..word in it and your free to not say it,so why would you seek its exclusion,when its been there from the beginning.

Just because at different points in time feelings change,or individuals dont like it.That isnt a logical reason to exclude it.Unless the only faith moves to muslim or something

I dont wish to cause offence,i dont really care i just thought it was inconsiderate when no govn agency is forcing citizens to recite religious scripture.

I do hope you forgive me hellbender if ive come across wrong.

Anyway atheism as far as im aware, isnt a movement.Your not part of a club or cult.Its individuals anywhere in the world who dont believe in God.

Its a bit rich thinking your individual opinion counts more than millions,who just happen to be religious.

sure, its voluntary. But why does it have to be there in the first place? Because christians think this is their country? It is voluntary, but state owned schools should not favor one religion over another, and having everyone stand up, every morning and declaring an allegiance to their country under the Jueo-Chrisitian god

I dont know what the actual religious denominations are percentage wise in america.However after independence if the majority of your country is made up of christians then you cant be surprised the word God will show up (imagine you living in a country of liquorish allsorts worshippers,"Our Bertie who's head tastes like aniseed,hallowed by thy liquorish legs,forgive us for eating them")

Like john has previously said,you cannot move to israel and moan about the star of David everywhere,or your trying to watch baseball and theres loads of people wailing at a wall "shut up will you,im atheist"(i dont imagine you would get a good reception).Your argument is intollerence towards others.Whilst the majority wish to keep it,they certainly do not force the individual to say it.

Instead of moaning how maligned you all are as athiests,get a life.

Or buy paint and go graffiti ATHEISM RULES on gov buildings or something

I