Hellbender

All these physics buffs joining, wow. Any biology majors here? At any rate, welcome and enjoy yourself.

"Evolution is just a theory. It can't be proven" (I realize Dak addressed this point above, but it can't be clarified enough, sadly.) 1. Its both a fact and a theory. Populations of organisms change over time. This is a fact. Evolutionary theory is a cohesive attempt to explain how this fact happens. 2. A theory is of course, not simply a guess. Theories are essentially works in progress arrived at through rigorous testing. 3. Since theories are works in progress, they are indeed not proven. They must remain so to make room for new discoveries. "There is no way life could have evolved as it is through pure chance." Chance does indeed play a big role in evolution, but natural selection, it's most important mechanism, is not random. "Evolution violates the second law of thermodynamics." The second law of thermodynamics states that entropy (disorder) cannot decrease in a closed system. Since an organism is not a closed system (closed systems are merely an ideal) as energy from the sun comes and goes, evolution does not violate this law. "Creationism should be taught in public schools as an alternative to evolution." 1. Creationism is essentially an aspect of Christian religious scripture. Thus, teaching it in school is in violation of the American constitution. 2. Science is not a democratic process. There are no "sides" of a story with scientific theories. The one that best fits the evidence wins, thats it. "Ockham's Razor states that simpler theories are more valid over complex ones. Evolution is complicated; creationism is simple." This is an oversimplification of Ockham's razor. It actually states that the theory with the least amount of terms is valid between two or more competing theories that make the same predictions. It is essentially a way to remove redundant terms in an explanation. "Evolution is ruthless and leads to immorality." 1. Nature is indeed ruthless. Thats just the way it is. Welcome to the real world. 2. Scientists don't pass any moral judgement on the phenomena they describe. If it leads to immorality, it doesn't mean that evolution isn't a valid theory. "Debate continues about evolution. Doesn't this mean it's not a good theory?" Scientists don't debate the fact that evolution occurs. All debate centers around the finer aspects of the theory. Dissent and debate among the scientific community is healthy and leads to the sharing of new ideas. This is a good thing. "There are problems with evolution, so the whole thing is wrong and creationism wins." 1. No one disputes the fact that there are things we don't yet know. However, if science simply admitted defeat every time a mystery was encountered, there would simply be no such thing as science. 2. Theories are not airtight. Thats why they are called "theories". Theories are works in progress. 3. Anything we don't yet know is not proof-positive of divine intervention. 4. If evolutionary theory was falsified tomorrow, creationism wouldn't be viable automatically. There may be more than 1 other option. "You are being closed-minded for not considering creationism." Being closed-minded about theories with no evidence is a healthy scientific mindset. Are modern evolutionists also close-minded for not accepting Lamarckism? "So and so, PhD is/was a creationist. If he/she could believe it, it must be true." Appeals to authority don't prove anything. Opinions an individual may hold can be wrong. Aside from this, 99% of scientists accept evolution, so one can just as easily (and more effectively) argue for evolution with this method. "You know the Piltdown man was a hoax." Yes and it was proven to be just that 50 years ago. It is no longer considered anything but an embarassing moment in bioanthropology textbooks. I might add it was also revealed by other scientists, which is a good example of how science works. Scientists are human; they make mistakes, get excited and leap to conclusions just like anyone else. But they will usually admit they are wrong and everyone moves on.

Sticky this in pseusdoscience & metaphysics. Please. These are all points I have tried to make to Christ Slave and his ilk.

I don't think I have ever contributed to this thread, but I do have a sense of humor. Things You'll Never Hear a Redneck Say... I'll take Shakespeare for 1000, Alex. Duct tape won't fix that. Honey, I think we should sell the pickup and buy a family sedan. Come to think of it, I'll have a Heineken. We don't keep firearms in this house. Has anybody seen the sideburns trimmer? You can't feed that to the dog. I thought Graceland was tacky. No kids in the back of the pickup, it's just not safe. Wrestling's fake. Honey, did you mail that donation to Greenpeace? We're vegetarians. Do you think my gut is too big? I'll have grapefruit and grapes instead of biscuits and gravy. Honey, we don't need another dog. Who gives a crap who won the Civil War? Give me the small bag of pork rinds. Too many deer heads detract from the decor. Spittin' is such a nasty habit. I just couldn't find a thing at Wal-Mart today. Checkmate. She's too young to be wearing a bikini. Does the salad bar have bean sprouts? Hey, here's an episode of "Hee Haw" that we haven't seen. I don't have a favorite college team. Be sure to bring my salad dressing on the side. You ALL. Those shorts ought to be a little longer, Darla. Nope, no more for me. I'm drivin' tonight. I guess I find this funny because people like this are everywhere where I live .

Hello to all new members. I know I don't post many greetings, but welcome to the forum.

dolphin and shark tails are examples of convergent evolution or, analogies. In both cases, crescent shaped flippers are efficient for propulsion through the water, and were selected for this reason. These are different than the homologies shared by humans and other primates, the two being part of the same mammalian order. I know what you mean, reverse, but I was talking homology, and how that is applied with other features to strengthen the evidence of common ancestry. I don't know what you mean about spiders (or arachnids) and insects. they are both artropods, but are quite different from one another in many more ways than number of legs.

This would actually be nice, paleolithic.

Good idea, Mokele. It makes me sad that the most popular threads are usually centered around creationist arguments. (although I admit I am guilty, I do contribute to these threads)

A zoology forum would be nice, but that subject usually falls under bio or evolution.

good post. The evidence never stops piling up, does it? Personally, i don't see how anyone could deny our inclusion into order Primates. You don't even need DNA comparison to see the resembalance in our behaviors and anatomy.

hey, its okay, I also know whats its like to have no friends. Anyways, some of us are super intelligent for sure, but not all. Look at me, I am absolutely terrible at math. If you just have an interest in science, you'll fit right in. Welcome, by the way Hellbender

welcome to the forum, pljames.

my name is Hellbender, I am new as well