[questionposter]

You can isolate other charged particles, why not quarks? Can it theoretically be done but we just don't have enough energy? Also, why would any particle not be able to be isolated? Aren't gluons or muons inseparable? Is it the same principal?

This post has been edited by questionposter: 4 January 2012 - 06:55 AM

[swansont]

The force from color charge does not diminish with distance. At some separation distance you will have added enough energy to just create more quarks.

[derek w]

Unless you can find a way of separating quarks without inputting energy,otherwise the energy you input is absorbed and creates new quarks rather than separating quarks.

I have another question?What happens if you input another energy to strain the gluon quark bond,but insufficient to create new quarks.What happens to the excess energy,it has nowhere to go,or does it dissipate,or do you then have a higher energy meson?

This post has been edited by derek w: 4 January 2012 - 04:48 PM

[questionposter]

swansont, on 4 January 2012 - 10:46 AM, said:

The force from color charge does not diminish with distance. At some separation distance you will have added enough energy to just create more quarks.

Isn't that just a theoretical guess at how gluons act though? Plus, don't gluons exchange only at the speed of light? Couldn't you move quarks away with enough energy for not enough gluons traveling away from a quark to hit another quark and travel back in time?

Also, so what if other quarks are created, I don't care, I just want 1 isolated quark, and if you need to create other quarks that are bound for that to happen then fine.

This post has been edited by questionposter: 4 January 2012 - 10:24 PM

[swansont]

questionposter, on 4 January 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

Isn't that just a theoretical guess at how gluons act though?

It's not a guess, it's part of the model and the model works.

questionposter, on 4 January 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

Plus, don't gluons exchange only at the speed of light? Couldn't you move quarks away with enough energy for not enough gluons traveling away from a quark to hit another quark and travel back in time?

?

questionposter, on 4 January 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

Also, so what if other quarks are created, I don't care, I just want 1 isolated quark, and if you need to create other quarks that are bound for that to happen then fine.

If it's bound, it's not isolated. Or, if being bound is not a problem, then I think it's already been done.

[questionposter]

swansont, on 5 January 2012 - 01:07 AM, said:

It's not a guess, it's part of the model and the model works.



?



If it's bound, it's not isolated. Or, if being bound is not a problem, then I think it's already been done.

Well I mean there's no way to actually measure gluons in any way, all we actually know is that quarks like to stay close together, and if gluon force didn't diminish over distance, why aren't all quarks bound in one massive atom? The gluons should be affecting other quarks as well.

Also, I don't care if the process creates other quarks, I just want 1 isolated quark, lets say I want an isolated quark and I don't care what the byproducts are: Don't I have a single quark after enough energy even if there are other quarks that are created? If quarks are created one at a time but adding energy, then why not use that?

This post has been edited by questionposter: 5 January 2012 - 02:20 AM

[immijimmi]

swansont, on 4 January 2012 - 10:46 AM, said:

The force from color charge does not diminish with distance. At some separation distance you will have added enough energy to just create more quarks.

The strong force? Yes it does, the maximum range is 3 fm. But yeah, the energy required to isolate a quark is enough that it would create more quarks rather than working to isolate the original.

Also I dunno how to add another quote but someone said something about light-speed gluon exchange. Doesn't happen because gluons have mass which also happens to be the reason the strong force has limited range.

This post has been edited by immijimmi: 5 January 2012 - 05:58 AM

[questionposter]

immijimmi, on 5 January 2012 - 05:56 AM, said:

The strong force? Yes it does, the maximum range is 3 fm. But yeah, the energy required to isolate a quark is enough that it would create more quarks rather than working to isolate the original.

Also I dunno how to add another quote but someone said something about light-speed gluon exchange. Doesn't happen because gluons have mass which also happens to be the reason the strong force has limited range.

Gluons aren't suppose to have mass, but other than that, I don't care if I get other quarks, I just want 1 isolated quark one way or another. Isn't the conventional process enough to do that? Also how does gluon radius get effected in systems with different types of quarks like more or less massive ones?

[immijimmi]

questionposter, on 5 January 2012 - 06:35 AM, said:

Gluons aren't suppose to have mass

Eeeeeh, it depends. We aren't sure (where ARE we sure?) but most of the evidence points towards gluons having around 0.14 MeV (either MeV or eV) of rest energy. Like I said before, they must have mass to explain the 3 fm limit of the strong force.

Also, you can't disregard the extra quarks created by the energy input. The problem is that the quarks that ae created will bond with the original, thus further preventing isolation.

[swansont]

immijimmi, on 5 January 2012 - 05:56 AM, said:

The strong force? Yes it does, the maximum range is 3 fm. But yeah, the energy required to isolate a quark is enough that it would create more quarks rather than working to isolate the original.

The interaction between nucleons has a finite range. The interaction between quarks does not drop off. The former is a residual effect of the latter.

http://en.wikipedia....ong_interaction

questionposter, on 5 January 2012 - 02:19 AM, said:

Also, I don't care if the process creates other quarks, I just want 1 isolated quark, lets say I want an isolated quark and I don't care what the byproducts are: Don't I have a single quark after enough energy even if there are other quarks that are created? If quarks are created one at a time but adding energy, then why not use that?

Any quark you create is bound to at least one other quark. You will never have a single quark.

[questionposter]

swansont, on 5 January 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

The interaction between nucleons has a finite range. The interaction between quarks does not drop off. The former is a residual effect of the latter.

http://en.wikipedia....ong_interaction



Any quark you create is bound to at least one other quark. You will never have a single quark.

But then that's two quarks, and since those quarks attract other quarks, they have to take one from an another quark system or, form a bigger proton, or...what?

[DrRocket]

swansont, on 5 January 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

The interaction between nucleons has a finite range. The interaction between quarks does not drop off. The former is a residual effect of the latter.

http://en.wikipedia....ong_interaction

And lest folks get the impression that all is known, the no one has yet actually derived the residual strong force among nucleons from the quantum chromodynamics that describes the strong interaction involving quarks and gluons. Nevertheless, it is believed that the theory, in principle, should be able to descrive the residual strong force.

Note that not only does the interaction between quarks not drop off with distance, it actually increases with distance, which serves to reinforce the fact that it takes enough energy to separate quarks any significant distance to create a new pair.

This post has been edited by DrRocket: 6 January 2012 - 06:55 AM

[swansont]

questionposter, on 5 January 2012 - 10:15 PM, said:

But then that's two quarks, and since those quarks attract other quarks, they have to take one from an another quark system or, form a bigger proton, or...what?

You create quark/antiquark pairs and form mesons. That's why you get all these particles in particle colliders.

[derek w]

Plus the fact that you input a lot of energy that gets converted into mass.BY the time the particles collide their mass has increased greatly.

[questionposter]

swansont, on 6 January 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:

You create quark/antiquark pairs and form mesons. That's why you get all these particles in particle colliders.

Ok so what if the quark created doesn't annihilate with it's counterpart?

[swansont]

questionposter, on 6 January 2012 - 05:38 PM, said:

Ok so what if the quark created doesn't annihilate with it's counterpart?

You get a different meson.

[questionposter]

swansont, on 6 January 2012 - 07:15 PM, said:

You get a different meson.

But isn't the definition of a meson a "quark and anti-quark" system? Plus, if it didn't annihilate, wouldn't it have to be isolated or somehow form a more massive proton or take quarks from another system until there was only one left or etc?

[swansont]

questionposter, on 7 January 2012 - 05:38 PM, said:

But isn't the definition of a meson a "quark and anti-quark" system? Plus, if it didn't annihilate, wouldn't it have to be isolated or somehow form a more massive proton or take quarks from another system until there was only one left or etc?

Yes, but it doesn't have to be the antiquark of that particular meson, so it won't annihilate. It will, however, decay.

http://en.wikipedia....#List_of_mesons

[questionposter]

swansont, on 7 January 2012 - 08:46 PM, said:

Yes, but it doesn't have to be the antiquark of that particular meson, so it won't annihilate. It will, however, decay.

http://en.wikipedia....#List_of_mesons

Ok, so a "meson" will decay, but then don't you still have individual quarks?

[swansont]

questionposter, on 7 January 2012 - 11:23 PM, said:

Ok, so a "meson" will decay, but then don't you still have individual quarks?

No. You will get different quarks or annihilation resulting in other particles. From the interaction standpoint, you need the system to be colorless.