H2SO4 Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 I know alot of compounds can make you pass out fairley quick, bt whats the most popular one. I got in this big argument on another forum thats wasnt even science related. He said it was chloroform. what is the molecular formual. What is it? I said it was ethyle that was most popularly used for this application. I dont know what either of these are, but i got in a argument and i knew this guy had no idea whats going on anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenSon Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 Is there a question in there? if your asking what cloroform its CHCl3... ~Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skye Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 Do you mean in anaesthetics? Chloroform has been superceded there by other drugs I believe. Modern drugs are usually used in combination. Here's a site. http://www.general-anaesthesia.com/painless.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 chloroform isnt used so much anymore because it can kill. it is produced by a haloform reaction, a form of nucleophilic substitution: R-COCH3+3MOCl-->R-COCCl3+3MOH R-COCCl3+3MOH-->R-COO-+M++CHCl3 also, R-COCH3+3X2+4MOH-->R-COO-+M++CHX3+3X-+3H2O i've been studying for my orgo I class btw, this reminds me. for home production of chloroform with minimal other waste products: since you need a methyl ketone, why not use acetone? it is a doubly methylated ketone: H3CCOCH3 thus, if one were to use 6MOCl, would one not achieve twice the chloroform and no R product? H3CCOCH3+6NaOCl-->Cl3CCOCCl3+6NaOH-->2Na+ -OOCOO- +2CHCl3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenSon Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 I'd like to think i understood all of that but i will admit that i had a problem with some of the notation. But most of all what the hell is 'OOCOO-' does that even exist? I would realy like to get this do you think you could explain it a bit easyer, like what are all the letter notations is M methyl, R alkyl group maybe im just guessing. Thanks. ~Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skye Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 M is normally a metal, R is an organic group, X is a halide. Methyl is Me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenSon Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 Alright i think i follow the reactions now but '2Na+ -OOCOO- +2CHCl3' still bothers me specifically -OOCOO-. What are the final products of the reaction. ~Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 wow sorry i wrote that incorrectly: -OCOO- with sodium cations it would be the dibasic salt of carbonic acid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenSon Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 Ok dibasic is when two hydrogens are removed right now that makes sense. However OCOO- is still wrong. Carbonic acid H2CO3 will leave OCOO2- bonding with the metal sodium in this case to form Na2CO3 Not NaCO3 which OCOO- suggests. ~Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 no, i said "-OCOO-" (see above) which covers the structure of a carbonate (note the - before the first O and after the last O). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest atarax Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 Chloroform isn't really that dangerous in the short term, but it causes cancer. I think most places use a combination of enflurane and propofol these days. (enflurane is an inhalation anaesthetic, and propofol is IV) enflurane is 2-Chloro-1,12-trifluoroethyl difluoromethyl ether. propofol is 2,6-diisopropylphenol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 i dont see how enflurane can be what you call it. 2-chloro-1,12-trifluoroethyl difluoromethyl ether. you can't have a 12th carbon if you have a methyl ethyl ether, which happens to have only 3 carbon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skye Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 Missed a comma I guess, probably.. 2-chloro-1,1,2-trifluoroethyl difluoromethyl ether This site gives the same structure though. Chinese whispers? http://environmentalchemistry.com/yogi/chemicals/cn/Enflurane.html I looked it up in JACS and they give it as: 2-chloro-1-(difluoromethoxy)-1,1,2-trifluoroethane, CHFCl-CF2-O-CHF2 Edit: Reference is Pfeiffer A, Mack H-G, Oberhammer H. Enflurane: Structure and Conformational Properties. J. Am. Chem. Soc. 1998, 120, 6384-6388 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2SO4 Posted April 24, 2005 Author Share Posted April 24, 2005 man do i suck at organic chemistry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdurg Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 It's really kind of frightening to know that acetone and hypochlorite can produce chloroform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 i love organic chemistry. i dont find that to be scary, jdurg, i find that to be absolutely wonderful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenSon Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 no, i said "-OCOO-" (see above) which covers the structure of a carbonate (note the - before the first O and after the last O). Check ~Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silencer Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 I wish I knew more organic chem. Do you know any good resources to start learning from, Bud? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 take a class. get a book. it will be helpful when you go to college (unless youve already been there/you are there now). i'll be using g.m. loudon's organic chemistry book this summer, so there's a start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akcapr Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 hey bud, could u explain in somewhat detail what organic chem. is about, why its cool, and what/how its different form inorganic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silencer Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 Well, organic chem isn't offerred at my high school, and I'm not going to invest in an extracurricular class. I was just wondering if you've used any books or online resources in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 organic is all about the carbon. there is an infinite number of organic molecules. there are many breakthroughs in organic involving biochem and such that can explain why organisms work the way they do. with organic, you see things in such a different light. everything is subtle. organic requires patience and is really an art. you need to be very precise and accurate in a lab situation. the way chemicals work in organic is so much more interesting than the way they interact in inorganic chem. hard to explain. there is so much more to do with organic and a million ways to do it. plus it's the most difficult science. i dunno, it's hard to explain my fascination with orgo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdurg Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 The whole reason why I think it's scary is because the materials needed to make it are VERY readily available and it's so easy to do. There's also a lot of idiots out there who can severely hurt themselves, others, and the environment by trying to make the stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 well, same with tcap and a number of other scarier products Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunny56 Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 Don't forget that Chloroform has special storing procedures. Like H2O2 one is supposed to store it in a brown bottle away from light and too much heat/UV radiation. A natural decomposition product is the deadly nerve gas phosgene Or so I've read anyways...it starts decomposing after about two weeks. Also it is metabolized in the body to phosgene which is bad for teh liver apparently. wouldn't want to e'er get a breathful of that particular gas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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