KHinfcube22 Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 did you know,if the gov. made drugs legal, it would be like talkin a sledge hammer to the backbone of crime. Drug smuggling is pretty far up on the list of most done bad stuff, (sorry I didn't know how to word it.) Even if we kept smuggling ilegal, there wouldn't be much to smuggle. The problem is, all good deeds have a consequence, every ones high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radical Edward Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 if we made car theft and mugging legal, crime rates would drop too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 If the government decided to legalize drugs, then quite clearly it would be seen as a concession by them and wouldn't be appreciated by the public as a whole. Also, people who take drugs (and I'm mainly talking about heroin/crack takers, etc) often do crime to be able to pay for them. If you legalize drugs, then the crime rate would probably increase. More people will be on the damn things, and not being able to afford them, you get an increase in crime. This is my stance on it anyway. There's enough drugs as it is in the UK and if you legalize them then small kiddies are gonna think it's 'popular' and we'd turn into a bunch of crack-addicts. I hate drugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHinfcube22 Posted April 17, 2003 Author Share Posted April 17, 2003 Well I don't live in the UK, so boohoo. But i see what you mean. I have the pleasure, and the pain, of living in the US. If you take a look at our past history, you will notice that in 1916, prohibition was made an ammendment. Not long after, the crime rates sky rocketed. Then in 1935 when prohibition,(ilegal to have alcoholic drink) was abolished, and beer smuggling stoped, everyone was happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 Everyone would not be taking drugs if they were legal. Drugs being illegal is hardly an obstacle at all for people who wish to obtain them. Furthermore, alcohol, nicotine, and caffeine are all legal and potentially addictive drugs, and so is salvia. Yet we don't see everyone addicted to these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHinfcube22 Posted April 18, 2003 Author Share Posted April 18, 2003 and that proves my post. Even though drugs are illegal, the main crime is smuggling drugs, and dealing them. now if we made it legaltoget them at alocal pharmecy,or someother place, there would be no need to smugglethem in. there fore we have the same amount of people doing drugs, but no ilegal smuggling going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted April 18, 2003 Share Posted April 18, 2003 And according to statistics, legalizing drugs make their use go down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted April 18, 2003 Share Posted April 18, 2003 Originally posted by fafalone And according to statistics, legalizing drugs make their use go down. Statistics can be misleading. I don't believe for one minute that they could accurately predict what is going to happen in such a varied and complex society when it comes to something like drugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHinfcube22 Posted April 19, 2003 Author Share Posted April 19, 2003 This is a science forum site. Science is practically based on statistics. Of course the chaos factor might come in here and drug use would rise, but I dought it. Most people only do drugs to break the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 'Science' is built on consistent observations from duplicable conditions. Although all such data entities can be called statistics, the reverse is certainly not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHinfcube22 Posted April 19, 2003 Author Share Posted April 19, 2003 like rectangles. Squares are always rectangles, but rectangles are not always squares. A philosophy for life one can always live on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 Indeedy. "All monkeys are animals, therefore all animals are monkeys". And so forth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHinfcube22 Posted April 19, 2003 Author Share Posted April 19, 2003 not all monkeys are animals, the ones the goverment are working on are classified as plants. You mean all french fries are animals so all animals are french fries. (oops, shouldn't have put that gov. secret out!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 Sounds like you're on the drugs already... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHinfcube22 Posted April 19, 2003 Author Share Posted April 19, 2003 I'm nOT oN Any kInDa oF drUgs aT thiS mOmmeNt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radical Edward Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 considering the types of drugs that are banned, I see no problem with it tbh. heroin, crack cocaine, (both very addictive, and often lethal - not something you really find in cigarettes) LSD, Ecstacy and so on. Cannabis is about the only grey area that I can think of. Beer kills lots of people, but then you really do have to drink it in excess for a long time. and the prohibition argument is largely irrelevant here. the reason that caused so many problems are somewhat different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacemanspiff Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Beer kills lots of people, but then you really do have to drink it in excess for a long time. unless you drive drunk. that kills plenty of people. alcohol is probably more problematic to society in general than pot is. and yet one is illegal and the other is an institution of american life. go figure. it's hard for me to watch those "pot is evil" ads that have been running when alcohol is at least as bad and is plenty legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Originally posted by Radical Edward considering the types of drugs that are banned, I see no problem with it tbh. heroin, crack cocaine, (both very addictive, and often lethal - not something you really find in cigarettes) LSD, Ecstacy and so on. Cannabis is about the only grey area that I can think of. Beer kills lots of people, but then you really do have to drink it in excess for a long time. and the prohibition argument is largely irrelevant here. the reason that caused so many problems are somewhat different. In the US, crack is schedule I and cocaine is Schedule II (completely illegal vs. need a prescription), yeah, great logic there. LSD is illegal because too many idiots took it not prepared for what would happen. From a physiological standpoint, LSD causes no permanent physical damage, and proper use very rarely produces bad trips or flashbacks. It is NOT addictive, neither psychologically nor physically. Myths like it drains your spinal fluid are false (I actually know how that particular rumor got started if anyone is interested). MDMA is not as dangerous as it's claimed to be, largely because nearly half of all pills analyzed don't actually contain MDMA. If they were legal, some measure of quality control would take place and it would be no more dangerous than alcohol. Heroin is LESS ADDICTIVE than nicotine. This is a scientifically proven fact. You may have to drink an aweful lot of beer to kill yourself, but one 12oz can of 151 proof liquor will more than likely kill you. Also in response to back up what I said about legalize driving down usage, comparisons of usage within identical age groups in the United States and Holland (where use is legal for all drugs) shows a SIGNIFICANTLY lower percentage of users in Holland. There is no valid reason for most drugs to be illegal while substances like alcohol and nicotine are legal. And I'm not alone in this position, a professor here at UM who teaches a course on drugs and has studied these issues for decades agrees with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Originally posted by fafalone There is no valid reason for most drugs to be illegal while substances like alcohol and nicotine are legal. And I'm not alone in this position, a professor here at UM who teaches a course on drugs and has studied these issues for decades agrees with me. Don't you mean "there is no valid reason for alcohol and nicotine to be legal while most drugs are illegal"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radical Edward Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Originally posted by Sayonara³ Don't you mean "there is no valid reason for alcohol and nicotine to be legal while most drugs are illegal"? that's more like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Originally posted by Radical Edward that's more like it. Well, I smoke and drink, and you don't see me breaking into people's houses and stealing their consumer goods to feed my habit. You don't see me hanging around outside the shops, bothering shoppers for small change even though I'm half cut. You don't see me stabbing pensioners for £3.46, or slicing teenagers throats so I can sell their mobile phone. Likewise I never heard of anyone having their family burned in their beds for not paying off their cig dealer, or having their ankles broken for skimming gin. There is a difference between alcohol/tobacco users and illicit drug users, and there must always be the means to protect society from the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Originally posted by Sayonara³ Well, I smoke and drink, and you don't see me breaking into people's houses and stealing their consumer goods to feed my habit. You don't see me hanging around outside the shops, bothering shoppers for small change even though I'm half cut. You don't see me stabbing pensioners for £3.46, or slicing teenagers throats so I can sell their mobile phone. Likewise I never heard of anyone having their family burned in their beds for not paying off their cig dealer, or having their ankles broken for skimming gin. There is a difference between alcohol/tobacco users and illicit drug users, and there must always be the means to protect society from the latter. - Why do you think people do those things at all? It's not always because of drugs, and if they were legal this is unlikely to happen more, because use would be down. -Bums beg me for alcohol money all the time. In fact, it's exceedingly more likely to be money for alcohol. -Not correlated to drug use, especially use of drugs over alcohol. -Once again, this would no longer happen if drugs were legal and being produced by corporations safely rather than in peoples basement labs. Please refrain from just restating your point without reading how my conclusion was reached. If your primary argument is crime committed to obtain drugs, you therefore cannot conclude that legalization would increase these crimes if it drives use down(proven). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Originally posted by Sayonara³ Don't you mean "there is no valid reason for alcohol and nicotine to be legal while most drugs are illegal"? Nope, that will only increase use and problems resulting from use. See prohibition and my previous post about scientific studies showing that legalization reduces use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Originally posted by fafalone Please refrain from making irrelevant comments in the future, and inform me when you've studied these issues for decades. I don't see them as being irrelevant, I see them as being very much the heart of the issue. You haven't studied the issues for decades and you seem to be discussing them quite freely. Oh look, you got rid of that bit - I'll have to start again now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Yeah I generally prefer not to use credentials for condescension... but seriously, we had a floor program with the professor who agrees with me, so I feel confident in the validity of my points, as he addressed and confirmed all of them. And I debunked all your reasons, please debate specific points with me rather than sweeping generalizations that fail to be proof to the contrary of my originally posted arguments (i.e. all your negative consequences would logicially be reduced if drug use went down, which would happen if they were legla). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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