Sayonara Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 i have yet to see archer blame hoshi for anything because she is a woman or asian. nor have i seen him say anything about travis being black. Are you being deliberately thick? It's all in the writing, not the dialogue I posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydoaPs Posted February 4, 2005 Author Share Posted February 4, 2005 ok, i seriously don't understand how you are getting this. please show me an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 I don't expect you will get it, because you're constantly exposed to media that's saturated with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydoaPs Posted February 4, 2005 Author Share Posted February 4, 2005 how are are reed, hoshi, or travis portrayed as inferrior? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Demosthenes- Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 A character doesn't have to be human to be the subject of appallingly badly-handled writing' date=' and more often than not it's the aliens who become the subject of the human characters' "dilemmas" anyhow. Count the number of condescending conversations between Archer and Phlox, or Archer and T'Pol. Or - oh my god - Archer teaching advanced alien societies how to be more like him. Even better, count the number of times Archer accuses an alien of being inhuman, or having values that differ from his own. I am not sure what coming from the US has to do with racial apologetics, but I'd point out that Travis was raised on a deep space vessel.[/quote'] I noticed some of that, if I think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 how are are reed, hoshi, or travis portrayed as inferrior? Notice I didn't actually say inferior. Reed is portrayed as a Chocs Away! Brit from a family with a naval tradition. Even if the series were set in the present, that would be so anachronistic as to be a vintage notion. He is also characterised as being the antagonistic, stuffy misery-guts who never has personal encounters, but goes to pieces when he does. This is a typical characterisation of a Brit for American tv, and it's just lazy writing. From Star Trek we expect better. Hoshi, if you remeber, was a bag of nerves when the series started. They devoted whole plots to it, if you remember. Notably the "oh my god, I have such little faith in my ability to translate stuff. Everyone expects too much of me because they say we ASIANS! are a lot smarter than our caucasian counterparts." You probably won't have noticed the inexplicably dismissive looks Archer occasionally gives her (I say Archer, and not Bakula, because I think it was directed that way.) Travis is an odd one. Despite having more hours in space than anyone else on the crew, he is portrayed by the behaviour of the other characters as being tiresomely naive about the dangers of space travel. What's interesting about him is that his dialogue (and to a certain extent screen time) dropped sharply to NOTHING for long periods, as if nobody needed to hear from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydoaPs Posted February 4, 2005 Author Share Posted February 4, 2005 so if reed was from US, and hoshi and travis were white, there wouldn't be a problem? you are pushing race onto personal characteristics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 so if reed was from US' date=' and hoshi and travis were white, there wouldn't be a problem? you are pushing race onto personal characteristics[/quote'] So many levels of "what?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydoaPs Posted February 4, 2005 Author Share Posted February 4, 2005 basically, your post said the only reason for any of them to be nervous, solitary, or nieve, is race. as far as i can tell, the only connection to race was put there by you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Demosthenes- Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 so if reed was from US' date=' and hoshi and travis were white, there wouldn't be a problem? you are pushing race onto personal characteristics[/quote'] If they were white and Reed was american then it wouldn't have been writen that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 basically, your post said the only reason for any of them to be nervous, solitary, or nieve, is race. as far as i can tell, the only connection to race was put there by you. No, this is about stereotyping. You have successfully evaded the point by reversing the polarity of your deck plating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydoaPs Posted February 4, 2005 Author Share Posted February 4, 2005 so characters can't have minor flaws or differences unless they aren't white americans? give me a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Demosthenes- Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 THe flaws written into the characters are based on steriotypes of their races, if you think about it it becomes rather obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 so characters can't have minor flaws or differences unless they aren't white americans? give me a break. I think you're getting yourself confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydoaPs Posted February 4, 2005 Author Share Posted February 4, 2005 No, this is about stereotyping. You have successfully evaded the point by reversing the polarity of your deck plating. ok, 1st manned deep space exploration. everyone should be a little nervous. hoshi didn't want to be there in the first place and she was used to earth languages which have cognates and similar patterns. what is wrong with reed coming from a family of people in the navy? travis could just be stupid. what does any of that have to do with race or stereotyping? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Demosthenes- Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 Travis grew up on a deep space vessel, you may as well say that he grew up in the Ghetto and somehow he made it to star fleet. The Biritsh guy, I find his past very entertaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 Oh Jeez. Because the associations are made implicitly in the various contrasts with the non-ethnic / non-minority characters. This is usually the product of (or, which is far worse, the premise for) a plot device or character arc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Demosthenes- Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 I won't tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydoaPs Posted February 4, 2005 Author Share Posted February 4, 2005 i'll look for it at 8. maybe then i will understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 Like I said, I think you would have difficulty spotting it as your media is literally saturated with it. In the UK we sometimes call it reverse or anti-prejudice, because it's going out of your way to point out that 'those wacky different folks' are just like you or me, despite their foibles. Or you may well spot it, but not get why it's a problem for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydoaPs Posted February 5, 2005 Author Share Posted February 5, 2005 wtf, there are remens on this episode. i thought the romulans and remens should hate each other at this point in history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydoaPs Posted February 5, 2005 Author Share Posted February 5, 2005 the federation is supposed to begin this week or next week. when did it start in the startrek universe before enterprise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 The alliance was officially ratified in 2161. That's like ten years after Enterprise NX-01 was launched. I thought season 3 dragged a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydoaPs Posted February 5, 2005 Author Share Posted February 5, 2005 i did notice that archer is a little specieist(?). "...act like humans for a change..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 Which episode is it? I haven't bothered with season 4. The episode where he is dragged before the Klingon court is very funny in human-alien relations terms (as well as being a really poor knock-off of ST:VI, of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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