Immortal Humans - when is it happening?

[Proton Head]

What do you think, when will we achieve the technology to keep ourselves alive as long as we have the will and materials to do it?

 

My guess is about after 250-500 years have passed.

 

After all keeping yourself alive is only a matter of raising the level of order inside yourself, whilst introducing disorder to the surroundings.

 

Even now our DNA carries a powerfull machinery which keeps the cell and its contents functional and repairs any mistakes that arise.

Problems tend to arise only when the repairing mechanism itself starts to fall apart and suffer from flaws.

 

After the repair mechanisms are no longer functional errors from spontaneous damage start to gradually accumulate.

This is happening little by little in our bodies as we get older and older.

In the end it leads to a situation where the organisms cells are too damaged to keep the multicellular organism alive as a functioning unit, and it dies.

 

So all it would take to keep a human alive would be to continuously repair the damage on its DNA and other cellular substances.

 

Fundamentally there are a number of ways that could be used to solve this. Building up the whole genome from scratch and introducing this newly built fully functioning genome inside every cell (the genome would probably have to be carried into the cells in smaller pieces and brought together once inside the cell). This aproach would also mean that we would have to get rid of the old damaged genome.

Another way would be to monitor the genome and replace only those parts which had suffered too much damage to function at optimal efficiency.

Another aproach would be to introduce genome repairing elements which would constantly work in the cells, repairing any arising mistakes.

 

Mechanizing as much of the body would of course help a lot, as mechanized units are easier to repair as biological ones.

 

All these approaches require that we achieve a "complete" understanding on molecular interactions, and the behaviour of groups of molecules, atoms and microscopic units, an arising branch of science known as nanotechnology which regularily hits the headlines, even as till now we do not posses even a small understanding of the subject as we simply have not enough calculation capacity right now.

But with the coming of more powerfull computers and intelligence boosting through electronic device-neuron junctions, these obstacles will be "quickly" overcome.

 

Also what is your view on how will achieving "immortality" change the society?

I believe that these techniques will only be open for the rich people, or if it becomes common, then we have to introduce some kind of birth control system. Like you can choose whether to live yourself or have a baby.

Whatever way you look at it, it's clear that not all of people will gain the benefit of these new techniques (the people of developing countries coming in mind at first), so I think that humans will speciate (because of this and other changes in the genome + machine incorporations) into old humans and new humans.

 

Nevertheless I suppose that eventually the only option will be for a part of humanity to move away from earth and start colonizing space, since running out of living space and resources on Earth will become a real problem.

 

Space stations will probably be built first, then habitats on the Moon, Mars etc. Eventually we will have to set our sight on outer space and exo planets but this will require for methods of transport not available yet.

 

Opinions, anyone?

[SubJunk]

I think it will make the rate of suicide increase by a lot if it does ever happen.

Also, when people are nearing death they often accept it even if they've been in fear of it their whole life - possibly something programmed into us - so in that way and many many many many other ways I think it would be disastrous for that technology to be available. Immortals would possibly become even more materialistic because they wouldn't think "these things won't mean anything when i'm dead" they'll think "well as long as i can cheat death i can keep these things"

There would obviously be great benefits for great men, but bad things for bad men too.

The frustrating thing to me about human intelligence paired with human maturity is that we always strive to invent everything, it's a natural inclination. I know that if I got an idea for a great new invention like a bomb or gun I'd have to fight myself over making it or not, even though my common sense would tell me not to.

Immortality may even drive some people insane. Imagine living longer than 2 or 3 spouses. I think the way man is built is the way man is built and to change something as fundamental as the longevity of life itself has unforeseeable repurcussions.

[Proton Head]

I think it will make the rate of suicide increase by a lot if it does ever happen.

Also' date=' when people are nearing death they often accept it even if they've been in fear of it their whole life - possibly something programmed into us - so in that way and many many many many other ways I think it would be disastrous for that technology to be available.[/quote']

 

Most people accept it because that's about the only thing they can do. I mean they know that they are about to die. So they can either accept it and die, or spend their days crying and worrying and still die. So its not so much of a choice.

Besides usually people die at old age when they've grown weak, ugly and stupid. Young people pity and despise them and act as if they were no more than air. In other words the options they had in life when they were younger are greatly limited. This however would not be the case if through technology people would be kept at their prime.

 

Immortality may even drive some people insane. Imagine living longer than 2 or 3 spouses. I think the way man is built is the way man is built and to change something as fundamental as the longevity of life itself has unforeseeable repurcussions.

 

I don't believe there would be problems about living a couple hundred years, but just try to imagine a person who would have lived 100 thousand, million or billion! years (that's something that noone can quite imagine).

Even though there exists quite a number of different things to do, you can for example first study to be a taxi driver, then a mathematician, a footbal star, a doctor, an actor, a priest etc. for someone to live a billion years, I'd say that the person couldn't spend his time like we do now, or else it would just be too way boring to be alive.

The least you would have to do is to take breaks from time to time (keep yourself dead for a couple million years and then come back again).

[Aardvark]

This is a hypothesis.

 

If you lived long enough your permanent memory would become full. You would need to have your memory periodically wiped. That would have all sorts of implications for questions of identity. In effect you would be a succesion of people experiencing differnt lifetimes in the same body.

[Aardvark]

This is a hypothesis.

 

If you lived long enough your permanent memory would become full. You would need to have your memory periodically wiped. That would have all sorts of implications for questions of identity. In effect you would be a succesion of people experiencing differnt lifetimes in the same body.

[Deified]

250-500 years? The computer memory and processing power to store and simulate an entire individual brain will be available in the next 50 years or so. This will mean that the only requirement for immortality is remembering to backup often enough. Granted, this will not be a foolproof or affordable technology for sometime after its creation, but I think the figure of 250-500 is inaccurate.

 

Some people might question whether this is truly living or not, that remains up for discussion.

 

And yes I do realize that this was a little off topic but oh well.

[Deified]

250-500 years? The computer memory and processing power to store and simulate an entire individual brain will be available in the next 50 years or so. This will mean that the only requirement for immortality is remembering to backup often enough. Granted, this will not be a foolproof or affordable technology for sometime after its creation, but I think the figure of 250-500 is inaccurate.

 

Some people might question whether this is truly living or not, that remains up for discussion.

 

And yes I do realize that this was a little off topic but oh well.

[Geode]

Proton Head wrote:Also what is your view on how will achieving "immortality" change the society?

 

It will destroy society, violently. Any such therapeutic process that would allow the body to be perpetuated through replacement of organs and tissues would also be massively expensive.

 

The rich and/or privileged would be the ones who could afford it. The remain 99.99% or so of humanity could not and would probably revolt violently at being effectively put to death by the wealthy/privileged.

 

Already in the US and elsewhere, health care designed only to keep the person going is dramatically expensive. When health care embraces options for extending life through organ and tissue replacement (growing a few cells from one's body into a complete organ or tissue-set, for example) that cost will increase beyond what most anyone can afford.

 

 

Geode

[Geode]

Proton Head wrote:Also what is your view on how will achieving "immortality" change the society?

 

It will destroy society, violently. Any such therapeutic process that would allow the body to be perpetuated through replacement of organs and tissues would also be massively expensive.

 

The rich and/or privileged would be the ones who could afford it. The remain 99.99% or so of humanity could not and would probably revolt violently at being effectively put to death by the wealthy/privileged.

 

Already in the US and elsewhere, health care designed only to keep the person going is dramatically expensive. When health care embraces options for extending life through organ and tissue replacement (growing a few cells from one's body into a complete organ or tissue-set, for example) that cost will increase beyond what most anyone can afford.

 

 

Geode

[john5746]

250-500 years? The computer memory and processing power to store and simulate an entire individual brain will be available in the next 50 years or so. This will mean that the only requirement for immortality is remembering to backup often enough. Granted' date=' this will not be a foolproof or affordable technology for sometime after its creation, but I think the figure of 250-500 is inaccurate.

 

Some people might question whether this is truly living or not, that remains up for discussion.

 

And yes I do realize that this was a little off topic but oh well.[/quote']

 

I don't want microsoft involved with my memory!

[john5746]

250-500 years? The computer memory and processing power to store and simulate an entire individual brain will be available in the next 50 years or so. This will mean that the only requirement for immortality is remembering to backup often enough. Granted' date=' this will not be a foolproof or affordable technology for sometime after its creation, but I think the figure of 250-500 is inaccurate.

 

Some people might question whether this is truly living or not, that remains up for discussion.

 

And yes I do realize that this was a little off topic but oh well.[/quote']

 

I don't want microsoft involved with my memory!

[Rasori]

So wait another 25 years for Macintosh to invent the stuff, John5746.

[Rasori]

So wait another 25 years for Macintosh to invent the stuff, John5746.

[Proton Head]

This is a hypothesis.

 

If you lived long enough your permanent memory would become full. You would need to have your memory periodically wiped. That would have all sorts of implications for questions of identity. In effect you would be a succesion of people experiencing differnt lifetimes in the same body.

 

I don't believe it would work like that. I think that "nonimportant" memories (like what I had for breakfast 5.12.4006790) would get wiped out of your brain automatically and be replaced with newer ones' date=' but the ones that matter - the ones defining your personality (ie your response to outside stimuli) would be kept there. And if it was a problem you could always copy extra memories to electronic hardware/secondary brains.

 

250-500 years? The computer memory and processing power to store and simulate an entire individual brain will be available in the next 50 years or so. This will mean that the only requirement for immortality is remembering to backup often enough. Granted, this will not be a foolproof or affordable technology for sometime after its creation, but I think the figure of 250-500 is inaccurate.

 

Some people might question whether this is truly living or not, that remains up for discussion.

 

And yes I do realize that this was a little off topic but oh well.

 

My opinion: that's techno hype.

 

Of course it would be great if that would happen so fast, but I've realized that in this world where 90% of people have trouble with simple algebra, nothing happens fast. I mean look at our science, it's lagging! By now we should already have gene technology and cybernetics in wide use. We should have fusion energy sources, cures for diseases and space travel should be reality. But scientists are too small a minority. People are just not interested in science, so it receives too little funding and attention. Science in our society is a issue of secondary importance, most people appreciate it, but they aren't willing to do anything to advance it. And that's a pity.

 

I can say for "quite certain" that it will take more than 50 years to simulate a human brain. And even when it happens that's what it will ever going to be, a simulation!

A computer is a computer, a brain is a brain. They are 2 different structures. If you wanted a brain you would have to build it from neurons. You could program a computer to respond to stimuli like a brain but that wouldn't be a brain.

In any case I believe that you (and some other people) really underestimate the capacity of the human brain. I mean it's a work of art. It's packaging capacity is insane! because it operates in a circular manner vs. linear for computers.

 

The brain is a memory unit continuously programmed by 5 different programmers (the senses: vision, auditory, smell, taste, sense).

Billions of units (neurons) are interconnected (thousands of connections can be operating in one unit) in an insanely intricate network. This interconnectivity is something which I don't know how could be achieved by a transistor based linear machine, so I'm not sure if a computer will become sentient, because it is my opinion that the sentience of humans arises because of amount of cross connections in the brain.

But perhaps it can, but I doubt it's as simple a matter as some people believe.

 

Besides in any case sentience doesn't occur without constant stimuli, so the computer would have to have sense units attached (or something should have to stimulate it from outside).

 

Just to make sure you don't misunderstand me, I'm not a religionist or anything in that direction. In fact I'm a great believer in science and would like to see it progress in all possible directions (well almost all), but its just that I think that some people like to overexxaggarate how easy it would be to achieve a conscious machine, and how far our technology is or how fast it will progress.

 

It will destroy society' date=' violently. Any such therapeutic process that would allow the body to be perpetuated through replacement of organs and tissues would also be massively expensive.

 

The rich and/or privileged would be the ones who could afford it. The remain 99.99% or so of humanity could not and would probably revolt violently at being effectively put to death by the wealthy/privileged.

 

Already in the US and elsewhere, health care designed only to keep the person going is dramatically expensive. When health care embraces options for extending life through organ and tissue replacement (growing a few cells from one's body into a complete organ or tissue-set, for example) that cost will increase beyond what most anyone can afford.Geode[/quote']

 

This is something I've given a great deal of tought in. I mean even if we forget this talk about immortality, look what's happening right now.

As you mentioned we will "soon" have cures for many fatal diseases but these treatments will be insanely costly, due to patents and the greed of men. Thus far such treatments have had a share of problems and limitations so this thing hasn't surfaced yet, but new technology is coming and soon we will have total cure treatments. So even inside developed nations there will be a divisions of people in 2 groups. A very small minority who can afford such treatments and a very large majority who can't.

So we will relatively soon be in a situations where 2 people come in a hospital. The 1st ones says to the receptionist and says: I have cancer cure me? Do you have money? Yes! Here's your treatment. And the 2nd one comes to the receptionist and says: I have cancer cure me? Do you have money? No! Sorry go hire yourself a grave digger from next door.

Really bad times are ahead for the less fortunate unless the law of our whole society changes in a fundamental way (such as destroy the patent system, and even still...).

[Proton Head]

This is a hypothesis.

 

If you lived long enough your permanent memory would become full. You would need to have your memory periodically wiped. That would have all sorts of implications for questions of identity. In effect you would be a succesion of people experiencing differnt lifetimes in the same body.

 

I don't believe it would work like that. I think that "nonimportant" memories (like what I had for breakfast 5.12.4006790) would get wiped out of your brain automatically and be replaced with newer ones' date=' but the ones that matter - the ones defining your personality (ie your response to outside stimuli) would be kept there. And if it was a problem you could always copy extra memories to electronic hardware/secondary brains.

 

250-500 years? The computer memory and processing power to store and simulate an entire individual brain will be available in the next 50 years or so. This will mean that the only requirement for immortality is remembering to backup often enough. Granted, this will not be a foolproof or affordable technology for sometime after its creation, but I think the figure of 250-500 is inaccurate.

 

Some people might question whether this is truly living or not, that remains up for discussion.

 

And yes I do realize that this was a little off topic but oh well.

 

My opinion: that's techno hype.

 

Of course it would be great if that would happen so fast, but I've realized that in this world where 90% of people have trouble with simple algebra, nothing happens fast. I mean look at our science, it's lagging! By now we should already have gene technology and cybernetics in wide use. We should have fusion energy sources, cures for diseases and space travel should be reality. But scientists are too small a minority. People are just not interested in science, so it receives too little funding and attention. Science in our society is a issue of secondary importance, most people appreciate it, but they aren't willing to do anything to advance it. And that's a pity.

 

I can say for "quite certain" that it will take more than 50 years to simulate a human brain. And even when it happens that's what it will ever going to be, a simulation!

A computer is a computer, a brain is a brain. They are 2 different structures. If you wanted a brain you would have to build it from neurons. You could program a computer to respond to stimuli like a brain but that wouldn't be a brain.

In any case I believe that you (and some other people) really underestimate the capacity of the human brain. I mean it's a work of art. It's packaging capacity is insane! because it operates in a circular manner vs. linear for computers.

 

The brain is a memory unit continuously programmed by 5 different programmers (the senses: vision, auditory, smell, taste, sense).

Billions of units (neurons) are interconnected (thousands of connections can be operating in one unit) in an insanely intricate network. This interconnectivity is something which I don't know how could be achieved by a transistor based linear machine, so I'm not sure if a computer will become sentient, because it is my opinion that the sentience of humans arises because of amount of cross connections in the brain.

But perhaps it can, but I doubt it's as simple a matter as some people believe.

 

Besides in any case sentience doesn't occur without constant stimuli, so the computer would have to have sense units attached (or something should have to stimulate it from outside).

 

Just to make sure you don't misunderstand me, I'm not a religionist or anything in that direction. In fact I'm a great believer in science and would like to see it progress in all possible directions (well almost all), but its just that I think that some people like to overexxaggarate how easy it would be to achieve a conscious machine, and how far our technology is or how fast it will progress.

 

It will destroy society' date=' violently. Any such therapeutic process that would allow the body to be perpetuated through replacement of organs and tissues would also be massively expensive.

 

The rich and/or privileged would be the ones who could afford it. The remain 99.99% or so of humanity could not and would probably revolt violently at being effectively put to death by the wealthy/privileged.

 

Already in the US and elsewhere, health care designed only to keep the person going is dramatically expensive. When health care embraces options for extending life through organ and tissue replacement (growing a few cells from one's body into a complete organ or tissue-set, for example) that cost will increase beyond what most anyone can afford.Geode[/quote']

 

This is something I've given a great deal of tought in. I mean even if we forget this talk about immortality, look what's happening right now.

As you mentioned we will "soon" have cures for many fatal diseases but these treatments will be insanely costly, due to patents and the greed of men. Thus far such treatments have had a share of problems and limitations so this thing hasn't surfaced yet, but new technology is coming and soon we will have total cure treatments. So even inside developed nations there will be a divisions of people in 2 groups. A very small minority who can afford such treatments and a very large majority who can't.

So we will relatively soon be in a situations where 2 people come in a hospital. The 1st ones says to the receptionist and says: I have cancer cure me? Do you have money? Yes! Here's your treatment. And the 2nd one comes to the receptionist and says: I have cancer cure me? Do you have money? No! Sorry go hire yourself a grave digger from next door.

Really bad times are ahead for the less fortunate unless the law of our whole society changes in a fundamental way (such as destroy the patent system, and even still...).

[chadn]

Immortality, how boring. I think death adds a lot to what makes humans, human. You all can live forever, when my times up I'll be happy to go.

[chadn]

Immortality, how boring. I think death adds a lot to what makes humans, human. You all can live forever, when my times up I'll be happy to go.

[Aardvark]

when my times up I'll be happy to go.

 

If you can recognise that your time is up. Now do you know how long is long enough?

 

If you can face death with happiness then i would be surprised but also impressed.

 

However, there are more things in heaven and earth, i don't think immortality would be boring for a very long time.

[Aardvark]

when my times up I'll be happy to go.

 

If you can recognise that your time is up. Now do you know how long is long enough?

 

If you can face death with happiness then i would be surprised but also impressed.

 

However, there are more things in heaven and earth, i don't think immortality would be boring for a very long time.

[Proton Head]

Immortality, how boring. I think death adds a lot to what makes humans, human. You all can live forever, when my times up I'll be happy to go.

 

Perhaps it's just me, but I think that our world, as it now stands, is all in all a pretty boring place. I think that this world could be made a lot more interesting with the advancement of science. For example once we can live longer and stimulate our brains (educate ourselves) through electrical components and have robots do lot of the "trashwork", we can finally break free of this ridiculous path: study, talk with friends about how boring studying is, sleep, study, work, talk with friends about how boring work is, drink beer, sleep, work, die.

In the future people can concentrate on developing character, acting cool and doing all kinds of mad stuff. That's going to make social interactions so much more interesting. Also I wouldn't mind to live and see the appearance of virtual worlds, direct sense stimulation, that would surely bee a mind blowing experience - something which noone can even imagine now.

I also want to see how the world will develop with the emergence of sentient machines, genetically modified non-human sentient organisms. And what I'd really like to see was the contact with alien species, assuming of course that they weren't as boring as most humans or hostile.

What's really interesting in this world is seeing how things change. If you just get born on some era you'll take all the things for granted. But if you've lived in the past too it's so much funnier.

That's why I'm not going to let go as long as there's even a small spark of life in me. I'm not satisfied with the world as it now stands, if someone else is well then I'm happy for them I think.

I'd do anything it takes to keep myself alive.

[Proton Head]

Immortality, how boring. I think death adds a lot to what makes humans, human. You all can live forever, when my times up I'll be happy to go.

 

Perhaps it's just me, but I think that our world, as it now stands, is all in all a pretty boring place. I think that this world could be made a lot more interesting with the advancement of science. For example once we can live longer and stimulate our brains (educate ourselves) through electrical components and have robots do lot of the "trashwork", we can finally break free of this ridiculous path: study, talk with friends about how boring studying is, sleep, study, work, talk with friends about how boring work is, drink beer, sleep, work, die.

In the future people can concentrate on developing character, acting cool and doing all kinds of mad stuff. That's going to make social interactions so much more interesting. Also I wouldn't mind to live and see the appearance of virtual worlds, direct sense stimulation, that would surely bee a mind blowing experience - something which noone can even imagine now.

I also want to see how the world will develop with the emergence of sentient machines, genetically modified non-human sentient organisms. And what I'd really like to see was the contact with alien species, assuming of course that they weren't as boring as most humans or hostile.

What's really interesting in this world is seeing how things change. If you just get born on some era you'll take all the things for granted. But if you've lived in the past too it's so much funnier.

That's why I'm not going to let go as long as there's even a small spark of life in me. I'm not satisfied with the world as it now stands, if someone else is well then I'm happy for them I think.

I'd do anything it takes to keep myself alive.

[Proton Head]

Don't you agree that it would be lots of fun to live after 500 years for example, and laugh to these predictions we made now about the future, as everything's gone in a whole different direction.

[Proton Head]

Don't you agree that it would be lots of fun to live after 500 years for example, and laugh to these predictions we made now about the future, as everything's gone in a whole different direction.

[chadn]

Perhaps it's just me, but I think that our world, as it now stands, is all in all a pretty boring place. I think that this world could be made a lot more interesting with the advancement of science. For example once we can live longer and stimulate our brains (educate ourselves) through electrical components and have robots do lot of the "trashwork", we can finally break free of this ridiculous path: study, talk with friends about how boring studying is, sleep, study, work, talk with friends about how boring work is, drink beer, sleep, work, die.

 

Come now, if anything living longer will only worsen this. Part of our drive is the fact that we only have a limited time in which to live. If anything that should motivate you break from this rediculus path.

[chadn]

Perhaps it's just me, but I think that our world, as it now stands, is all in all a pretty boring place. I think that this world could be made a lot more interesting with the advancement of science. For example once we can live longer and stimulate our brains (educate ourselves) through electrical components and have robots do lot of the "trashwork", we can finally break free of this ridiculous path: study, talk with friends about how boring studying is, sleep, study, work, talk with friends about how boring work is, drink beer, sleep, work, die.

 

Come now, if anything living longer will only worsen this. Part of our drive is the fact that we only have a limited time in which to live. If anything that should motivate you break from this rediculus path.