Tyler Durden Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Okay. Hypothetical situation. We observe an electron to be in an up-spin state. If the other electron of the pair is light-years away, it would instantly have a down-spin state....am I correct on that? How can this be possible? The energy (or information or whatever it is) that is in these sub-atomic particles, it has to travel faster than the speed of light. Does this mean that, assuming that dark energy connects everything together in the universe to one entity, the universe at large, which is expanding faster than the speed of light in all directions, does this mean that we are also moving at the speed of light, yet, we cannot tell, because of relativity? Or is it quantum teleportation that does this? And how does it do this? I've read some books on quantum physics, but of course, as everyone else, I do not understand it fully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electric Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 (edited) How can this be possible? The energy (or information or whatever it is) that is in these sub-atomic particles, it has to travel faster than the speed of light. Lorentz ether theory Ether theory I think that Einstein theory is not complete or incorrect. The speed of light is the theoretical limit, but not practical. einstein-was-not-wrong Proof einstein was wrong Edited January 29, 2010 by Electric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toastywombel Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Lorentz ether theoryEther theory I think that Einstein theory is not complete or incorrect. The speed of light is the theoretical limit, but not practical. einstein-was-not-wrong Proof einstein was wrong A. There is no such thing as Einstein Theory B. Relativity states that light can move through space at the constant 'c'. So far relativity has been proven to be quite accurate, probably one of the most tested theories of all time. C. Relativity only predicts the actions and properties of large celestial bodies, not sub-atomic particles. Responding to the OP, I think you are talking about quantum entanglement. Quantum entanglement is when two or more sub-atomic particles are created at the same time, and if one exhibits a certain property the others will exhibit a certain property, regardless of their position in a state. This is from wikipedia's article on Quantum Entanglement "(Quantum Entanglement) is a property of a quantum mechanical state of a system of two or more objects in which the quantum states of the constituting objects are linked together so that one object can no longer be adequately described without full mention of its counterpart—even if the individual objects are spatially separated in a spacelike manner. The property of entanglement was understood in the early days of quantum theory, although not by that name. Quantum entanglement is at the heart of the EPR paradox developed by Albert Einstein, Boris Podolsky, and Nathan Rosen in 1935. This interconnection leads to non-classical correlations between observable physical properties of remote systems, often referred to as nonlocal correlations." I don't exactly know if there is an answer as to why quantum entanglement can lead to information transfer that is super-luminous (faster than light). I would imagine that is where string theory/ m-theory come into play. The idea that the particles or strings are connected through a higher dimension, therefore the information is not transferred through three dimensional space-time, but through a higher dimension by folding space time. Because the information is not transferred through space-time as we know it, it would appear to be super-luminous (faster than light), in actuality it is kind of taking a shortcut. Its like if an ant was moving across a paper, if you folded the paper the ant could reach the other end of the paper very quickly as opposed to travelling the whole paper. A two-dimensional observer on the paper would see the ant as teleporting or moving very fast along the paper, when it is actually the fold in the paper that is moving the ant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Lorentz ether theoryEther theory I think that Einstein theory is not complete or incorrect. The speed of light is the theoretical limit, but not practical. einstein-was-not-wrong Proof einstein was wrong Answers to questions in the science sections need to be answered with mainstream science. Alternative theories may be discussed in Speculations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Skeptic Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 I don't exactly know if there is an answer as to why quantum entanglement can lead to information transfer that is super-luminous (faster than light). The answer is, it can't. You can't communicate via quantum entanglement, all you know is what you got and what the other guy got or will get, none of which you can control. The same information could have been sent as quickly with un-entangled particles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 The answer is, it can't. You can't communicate via quantum entanglement, all you know is what you got and what the other guy got or will get, none of which you can control. The same information could have been sent as quickly with un-entangled particles. You can communicate, but it will not be FTL. The advantage of entanglement is not that it's fast — it's very slow, because it's very inefficient. But, you can set it up to check if anyone has eavesdropped on the exchange. AFAIK, this has more implications for key exchange than message sending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Skeptic Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 You can communicate, but it will not be FTL. The advantage of entanglement is not that it's fast — it's very slow, because it's very inefficient. But, you can set it up to check if anyone has eavesdropped on the exchange. AFAIK, this has more implications for key exchange than message sending. Yeah, you can exchange keys with someone. Eavesdropping won't be an option, man in the middle will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted January 31, 2010 Author Share Posted January 31, 2010 Responding to the OP, I think you are talking about quantum entanglement. Quantum entanglement is when two or more sub-atomic particles are created at the same time, and if one exhibits a certain property the others will exhibit a certain property, regardless of their position in a state. This is from wikipedia's article on Quantum Entanglement "(Quantum Entanglement) is a property of a quantum mechanical state of a system of two or more objects in which the quantum states of the constituting objects are linked together so that one object can no longer be adequately described without full mention of its counterpart—even if the individual objects are spatially separated in a spacelike manner. The property of entanglement was understood in the early days of quantum theory, although not by that name. Quantum entanglement is at the heart of the EPR paradox developed by Albert Einstein, Boris Podolsky, and Nathan Rosen in 1935. This interconnection leads to non-classical correlations between observable physical properties of remote systems, often referred to as nonlocal correlations." I don't exactly know if there is an answer as to why quantum entanglement can lead to information transfer that is super-luminous (faster than light). I would imagine that is where string theory/ m-theory come into play. The idea that the particles or strings are connected through a higher dimension, therefore the information is not transferred through three dimensional space-time, but through a higher dimension by folding space time. Because the information is not transferred through space-time as we know it, it would appear to be super-luminous (faster than light), in actuality it is kind of taking a shortcut. Ah, yes, that's the word I was looking for...quantum entanglement. Thank you. I don't know how I forgot that word. It could be that the universe is holographic, too, which wouldn't disprove quantum theory, but rather, give it another 'branch", so to speak. M Theory and String theory are the most popular explanations to the phenomena that we've observed, but they're not the only theories. The many worlds theory is just as viable as it was when Hugh Everett first pitched it. If the universe was holographic, that means we are as well, so everything looks "real" to us. It's a theory I've been reading about that has ties to quantum theory, so I'm looking into it further to see if it can be taken seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Yeah, you can exchange keys with someone. Eavesdropping won't be an option, man in the middle will be. True if they don't have a shared secret, but then, if they've met already they might as well have traded keys at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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