aommaster Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 Nothing on google too, it takes me directly back to the science forums archive I guess only Wolfson knows. As for the strongest acid, I read that it was Antimony (not atinymonkey ) pentafluoride dissolved in hydrofluoric acid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 antimonypentaflouride isn`t the strongest, it IS strong, but not in comparison to say, Sulphuric acid, basicly when you add water to it, it liberates Hydrogen Fluoride, which quickly dissolves in the water to make hydrofluoric acid. and as we know, HFl(aq) as compared to others may even be considered weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aommaster Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 The guiness book said that a 50% concentration is like 1000 times stronger than concentrated sulphuric acid. This is different to the pH, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 Strength of an acid is measured in PH, the lower the PH the stronger the acid. dillution (unless extreme) does not alter the PH [edit] are we talking the traditional definition of an acid? or are we incorporating Lewis definitions also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J'Dona Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 But pH = -log10[H+], so dilution would affect the pH quite significantly, wouldn't it? Of course I'm thinking of "extreme" as being a few dm3 as opposed to just a few millilitres or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 the only real problem that occurs with some acids on dillution is the proton exchange viability, hence a "nitrating mix" likes to to have a good 98% H2SO4 and a good 70+% HNO3 in order to work effectively. other than that a 50% soln or a 98% soln of sulphuric acid for instance will be just as STRONG as each other. it`s got nothing to do with dillution, and everything to do with the Ions in it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J'Dona Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 Sorry, I don't quite follow... what is the % actually a measurement of? I'm assuming now that it doesn't have anything to do with concentration. Do you mean that the 98% conc sulphuric is 98% dissociated, and the 50% is 50% dissociated, so that once the free protons in each are used up more will be produced by the undissociated acid molecules and you get the same number of moles of protons in the end? If that's the case they should still have the same strengths, but different pH's due to different H+ concentrations, but then they should have different strengths, and, and... *head explodes* Sorry, I've just been doing chemistry all day, maybe I'm confused here :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfson Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 The acid is a carborane based superacid, named Fackler 1st (from the person who discovered it) or a carborane anion is fine. See: http://www.chem.ucr.edu/faculty/reed/reed.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 the `%` is only a "molar" measurement, not a "Strength" measurement, try think of it that way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfson Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 The strength of an acid is determined by its degree of dissociation. Complete dissociation of an acid molecule means that all of the H+ (hydrogen ions) are free and able to react. Hydrochloric acid (HCl) is one acid that dissociates completely in H20 and is considered one of the strongest acids. Hydrofluoric acid (HF) is often considered stronger because the fumes that it releases are very toxic and it has the ability to dissolve glass, but technically it is a weak acid because it does not dissociate as completely as HCl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aommaster Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 OH, ok. So the stronger the acid, the higher its ability to dissociate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 OH, ok. So the stronger the acid, the higher its ability to dissociate. cont... and have H+ Ions available for reaction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfson Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 Yes exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aommaster Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 ok. And alkalis have OH- ions? And the same thing for alkalis. The stronger the ability to dissociate, the stronger the alkali? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 yup, more or less ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfson Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 When they react, they dissociate fully, ie. form new compounds. So yes the same thing. 3 Strongest bases are: NaOH, KOH, Ba(OH)2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aommaster Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 Ba is....? Barium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfson Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 Barium Hydroxide yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aommaster Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 cool! What about caesium hydroxide, won't that be stronger than KOH? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 FrOH would be pretty powerfull, pity there`s never more that 17 atoms of Francium on the planet at any one time , I wouldn`t mind a bottle full of that stuff ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfson Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 Oh a superacid plus caesium, fireworks display Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aommaster Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 Why, what would you do with it? What could you do with it! Except for making millions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfson Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 Id more than likley kill myself in the process of my fireworks display. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aommaster Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 Even 17 atoms, like YT said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfson Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 Well 1 mole = 6.022e23 atoms so: Mass (Mr) of Fr (1 mole) = 223g's So mass = Mr / n = 223 / 6.022e23 = 3.70e-22 grammes per atom. 17 x 3.70e-22 = 0.0000000000000629 g So no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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