Daecon Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 If gravity is caused by matter warping space instead of matter generating Gravitons, could a ripple in the fabric or space (that isn't caused by matter interacting with space) create the same effect as gravity? Of course the nature and cause of these ripples (if they were to exist) would have nothing to do with any effects they may have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanJ Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 If gravity is caused by matter warping space instead of matter generating Gravitons, could a ripple in the fabric or space (that isn't caused by matter interacting with space) create the same effect as gravity? Of course the nature and cause of these ripples (if they were to exist) would have nothing to do with any effects they may have. That's exactly what relativity says happens! Interestingly what you've described above seems very similar to a speculated phenomenon called gravitational waves, these would be produced when say two neutron stars collide with one and other (among other things). These however have not yet been observed. For the record I don't think that relativity actually says anything about the carrier particle that would transmit the effect gravity. The graviton is another thing that has yet to be observed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 It's not an either/or situation. GR is a classical representation, that discusses warping. Gravitons are the proposed quantum force-carrier. Analogous to whether electrodynamic interactions are being caused by E or M fields, as opposed to photon exchange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Albers Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 As I modelled them, photons have transverse as well as longitudinal-scalar modes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim™ Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 I'm certainly hoping the upcoming CERN LHC/Atlas/Hadron colliders give some evidence of the graviton. It's a big long, but a good explanation if you're looking for a visual. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpbGuuGosAY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daecon Posted August 10, 2007 Author Share Posted August 10, 2007 I don't believe gravity is a "transmittable" force, rather an inherent property in the structure of space. I hope it can be conclusively proven one way or another, although I'm aware if no gravitons are detected it's not conclusive proof they don't exist... My original posting was going to lead into a question about Dark Matter, if it can only be "detected" by gravity, what would distinguish it from a gravity-faking space ripple that has no mass causing it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 My original posting was going to lead into a question about Dark Matter, if it can only be "detected" by gravity, what would distinguish it from a gravity-faking space ripple that has no mass causing it? If it wasn't distinguishable from the effects of mass, then we'd call it mass. How could we tell if it wasn't? If it wasn't mass, then the theory would eventually be amended to include whatever property the dark matter had, much like particle physics has done (e.g. color force, isospin) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daecon Posted August 10, 2007 Author Share Posted August 10, 2007 I'm not sure if I worded it clearly. I mean what if dark matter isn't "matter" at all, but just a ripple in space. From what I understand of dark matter, the only indication of it's existence is it's gravitational effect...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 I'm not sure if I worded it clearly. I mean what if dark matter isn't "matter" at all, but just a ripple in space. From what I understand of dark matter, the only indication of it's existence is it's gravitational effect...? How are the two situations distinguishable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daecon Posted August 10, 2007 Author Share Posted August 10, 2007 Well is dark matter believed to be some strange and unusual physical substance that absorbs all forms of EM radiation without emitting anything in exchange? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane_alien Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 Well is dark matter believed to be some strange and unusual physical substance that absorbs all forms of EM radiation without emitting anything in exchange? no, i think its believed to not interact with light at all, hence why we have difficulty seeing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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