Guest jukester Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 Hi, I'm a writer, not a science-type person. I'm hoping someone here can help me out. I'm working on a piece of fiction that takes place in a futuristic time when fossil fuels are not available (either by depletion, lack of access or perhaps cultural taboo; I've not determined). My question is this: What other fuels, not based on petroleum, would be available to this society? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaKiri Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 If we're talking cars: Hydrogen, ethanol (alcohol to the layman), electricity. If we're talking power plants: Nuclear fusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasori Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 We have cars that run on cow manure I think... But that could be considered a non-fossilized fossil fuel if you think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'n Refsmmat Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 And one STINKY car! Imagine filling up at a manure station. Whoops! All over the place! I don't like that I idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 Wave, wind and geothermal power. Biogas collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'n Refsmmat Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 And hydroelectric. Steam wells/geysers. Heck, even heat from volcanoes! Radioactive decay. Burning of dead animals. That's all I can think of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasori Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 Cold fusion, of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jukester Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 What is acetylene made from? (I need a fuel that can power a welder.) Ethanol these days is mixed with gasoline; can it be used in pure form? What about hydrogen-powered cars? Are they dependent on petroleum-based products? The comment about cow manure has a serious side. It can be burned to generate electricity, or it can be composted, and the methane gas can generate electricity also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'n Refsmmat Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 To make acetylene, buy a coumpound called "bangsite". Add water. I don't know what bangsite is, but I might find out. I'll check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 it`ll be Calcium Carbide in the bangsite the ony drawback with using it, is that it requires large amounts of electricity to make, so you`de be back to square one. Oxy-Hydrogen torches are very good at welding or cutting however Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmokingSkillz Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 Could geothermic heat be harnessed to charge hydrogen fuel cells? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 sure, you just vent the steam through an ordinary turbine like we do today I think there`s some northern European places that actualy do that already, it`s a good idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmokingSkillz Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 A while ago i heard (via TV) that it may be possible to beam power from solar panels on the moon in the future. Sounds a bit far-fecthed though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 it could be made to work for sure, a narrow beam Microwave transmition being picked up by horn antennas and then converted back to electricity. the idea`s perfectly sound, HOWEVER... I wouldn`t want to live anywhere near the bugger! there`s enough worries about the simple radiation from mobile fones and repeater masts, Imagine what something like that could do if it went wrong!? I have a feeling it would also effect the weather somewhat also, I could be wrong, but we all know what microwaves do to water and we all know what clouds are made off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jukester Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 What about plastics or plastic-like materials? Vinyl? What are they made from? I hadn't thought of microwaves, radio waves or anything like that... The story I'm writing is about a small colony with limited industrial capabilities... there's an emphasis on using recyclable materials. No mining, limited use of raw materials. If possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaKiri Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 Plastics are made from fossil fuels, for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 you`de be quite limited for plastics without fossil fuels as MrL said. however cellulose plastics can be made and things like polyethylene can be made from plain alcohol that you could brew from sugars, it`s also a good fuel, rubber wouldn`t be difficult either, one may say it even grows on trees LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pleiades Posted August 1, 2004 Share Posted August 1, 2004 Pure ethanol (99%) can be used in normal gasoline burning cars with a simple modification to the engine. Mainly, the ethanol must be heated before it reaches the engine, this is easy and can be done using the engine’s excess heat; the modifications are minimal. The only other concern is the purity of the ethanol, it must be distilled several times, or be distilled in a high reflux still (meaning the ethanol is always boiling and re-condensing, only the purest remains as a gas long enough to reach the top of the still and be collected). Diesel engines can run on vegetable oils with a similar preheat modification. To run a diesel engine without modifications, the oil must be converted into biodiesel. This is a fairly simple process that can be preformed in a kitchen with little specialized industrial equipment. I won’t go into detail on how to make it, as this can be found elsewhere, but you only need 2 other chemicals besides the oil to convert it; sodium hydroxide (lye) and methanol (wood alcohol), or in a pinch ethanol. Wood alcohol can be made without advanced industry, but the lye I am unsure about. Emissions from biodiesel is about half that of normal diesel. However the pollution from biodiesel is not as harmful as petroleum based diesel because the carbon stays in the ‘carbon cycle’, no -more- is introduced, i.e. dug up from the ground where it has been sealed away. The carbon levels in the atmosphere therefore stay quite constant. As for the welding, I would use an electric arc welder, or perhaps a plasma welder, both of which need only electricity (possibly from a biodiesel burning generator) and an inert (with respect to metals) gas, like helium or argon. I’d stay away form hydrogen power; it only introduces more problems, like how to store it safely under high pressure. The only problem is solves is how to turn raw electricity in to a concentrated fuel that can be easily transported. Whew, sorry for the long post, but there were a lot of issues to be addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Luemas Posted August 15, 2004 Share Posted August 15, 2004 Also the easiest way to make hydrogen is to extract it from fossil fuels. Although it is possible to do it with electricity for a net energy loss. It sounds to me that that you civilisation would be well uited to biodiesel though, (as a writer myself), but dont call it biodiesel. Dieseld is named after the guy who built the first diesel engine, and the prefix bio only exists to diferentiate it from fossil diesel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5614 Posted August 15, 2004 Share Posted August 15, 2004 My question is this: What other fuels, not based on petroleum, would be available to this society? chemicals is what springs to my mind. there is a guy in cambridge uni, dont know him, heard of him, who has some really nice sport car, lotus i think, wtvr, but he makes his own fuel in the cambridge labs, outta some chemical mixture, it is cheaper, less-poluting, and faster [or more powerful fuel]. additionally, he wont tell anyone the full content of it, its his secret! i cant find a link to the article on the BBC, but im sure of it, i remember the newspaper article! (also, dragsters and some other really powerful race cars use alchol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted August 15, 2004 Share Posted August 15, 2004 another somewhat good fuel is hydrogen peroxide. upon decomposition it yields water vapor and oxygen gas so it's great for the enviornment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProphet Posted August 15, 2004 Share Posted August 15, 2004 For a small civiliasation like that... with very limited acces to industry! Then Wood i guess would be the best raw material! And cars that run on alcohol/or some other bio produce. Wood products would stand for the heat and the electricity! That's the simplest form i can think of that don't need much industrial expertise. Windturbines is another got bet.. Solar power too if they are alowed to, thinking of cells here! But solar power to collect heat would shurely be most possible too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5614 Posted August 15, 2004 Share Posted August 15, 2004 another somewhat good fuel is hydrogen peroxide. upon decomposition it yields water vapor and oxygen gas so it's great for the enviornment. i was thinking of making some hydrogen peroxide, but then i forgot how! is hydrogen peroxide H2O2 but how do you make it? consider that i might not have access to every imagineable chemical! so suggest a way, which is possible to buy the chemicals, or better stil, being household items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pulkit Posted August 15, 2004 Share Posted August 15, 2004 Hydrogen Peroxide in a diluted form does find some household use, so u can buy it directly.......I just can't seem to remember where its used ( My memory is not to be trusted on peroxide though, so I might be wrong ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted August 15, 2004 Share Posted August 15, 2004 you can get 3% H2O2 in pharmacies and 40-45% in glowsticks and (supposedly) salons. of course, the H2O2 in glowsticks is mixed with a bunch of other chemicals so it won't be pure but hey it is 40-45%. to concentrate it, freeze it. the H2O freezes at 0 celcius while the H2O2 freezes at -11 celcius. be careful, though, because a mixture above 70% explodes on contact with anything organic or metallic. that means dust will make it explode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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